Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun’s article
A Series of Answers to Common Questions
By
http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allahs_ignorance.htm
He wrote:
Muslims often
criticize the biblical portrayal of God. For instance, Muslims take offense
at the biblical portrait of God as having to search out situations and look into things in
order to gain knowledge about certain events. For example, we are told in Genesis 18:20-21
that God needed to go down to
Muslims see such
references as an argument against the Holy Bible since a perfect God knows all things and
doesn't need to find out anything.
What the Muslims
have overlooked is that these references are simply anthropomorphic descriptions of God,
describing God's activities in a human manner. God often speaks analogously; condescending
to the level of man in order to communicate his unfathomable ways in such a manner that
man may understand and relate to God.
That this is what
God is doing can be seen from the following biblical passages which emphatically state
that God's knowledge is perfect and infinite, and does not change his mind:
"God is not a
man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and
then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" Numbers
"He who is the
Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind;
for he is not a man, that he should change his mind." 1 Samuel 15:29
"Do you know
how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who
is perfect in knowledge?" Job 37:16
"From heaven
the Lord looks down and sees all mankind; from
his dwelling place he watches all who live on earth- he who forms the hearts of all, who considers
everything they do." Psalm 33:13-15
"He counts the
number of the stars; He calls them all by name. Great is our Lord, and mighty in power; His understanding is infinite." Psalm 147:4-5
"Remember the
former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is
none like me. I make known the end from the
beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I
will do all that I please. From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land,
a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I
bring about; what I have planned, that will I do." Isaiah 46:9-11
"Before they call I will answer; while they are
still speaking I will hear." Isaiah 65:24
"I the Lord do not change. So you, O descendants of
Jacob, are not destroyed." Malachi 3:6
"Do not be
like them, for your Father knows what you need
before you ask him." Matthew 6:8
"But Jesus
would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all
men. He did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man." John
2:24-25
"Now we can
see that you know all things and that you do
not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from
God." John 16:30
"The third
time he said to him, ‘Simon son of John, do you love me?’ Peter was hurt because
Jesus asked him the third time, ‘Do you love me?’ He said, ‘Lord, you know all things; you know that I love
you.’" John 21:17
"Jesus Christ
is the same yesterday and today and forever." Hebrews 13:8
"whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything." 1 John 3:20
It is clear that
the Holy Bible does teach that God knows all things, provided that one accurately exegetes
and understands specific verses in their historical, cultural and biblical contexts.
My Response:
Actually in the Bible God is in fact
not all knowing and contradicts his own words when he says I do not change my mind. In the
Bible God has changed his mind, and has shown proof that he is indeed not all-knowing.
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I
have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent
of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jer
So
those are two passages that show that the God of the Bible does indeed change his mind. So
hence the verses Shamoun gave us is a lie and contradicts
these passages, and it also shows that the God of the Bible did not know that he would
change his mind one day when he said he does not change his mind. There are more verses to
show God changing his mind and not being all knowing, but those two verses are pretty
clear and basically refute Shamoun's silly claim that the God
of the Bible is all-knowing and does not change his mind.
He wrote:
We now turn our
attention to the Quran, to see whether it teaches that Allah
knows all things. It might amaze our readers to discover that the Quran
actually teaches that Allah doesn't know all things, and even has to guess at times. Note
the following passages:
My Response:
Before
showing the passages that seem to show Allah is not all-knowing, we must first show the
passages that Allah is indeed all knowing to get a better and bigger picture. The Quran is very clear that Allah is indeed all-knowing:
002.115
YUSUFALI: To Allah belong the east and the
West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah.
For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.
016.070
YUSUFALI: It is Allah who creates you and takes
your souls at death; and of you there are some who are sent back to a feeble age, so that
they know nothing after having known (much): for
Allah is All-Knowing, All-Powerful
009.106
YUSUFALI: There are (yet) others, held in
suspense for the command of Allah, whether He will punish them, or turn in mercy to them: and Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
022.059
YUSUFALI: Verily He will admit them to a place
with which they shall be well pleased: for Allah
is All-Knowing, Most Forbearing
So
the Quran is clear that Allah is all-knowing, all-wise,
knowing all things.
He wrote:
If a wound has afflicted you (at Ohud), a wound like it has
also afflicted the (unbelieving) people; and We bring these
days to men by turns, and that Allah MAY KNOW those
who believe and take witnesses from among you; and Allah does not love the unjust. And
that He may purge those who believe and deprive the unbelievers of blessings. Do you think
that you will enter the garden while Allah has NOT
YET KNOWN those who strive hard from among you, and (He has not) known the patient. S.
3:140-142 Shakir
My Response:
Now
since we know Allah is all-knowing. It is easy to explain such passages. Shamoun's main problem with the passage is that is says that Allah
may know those who believe. Shamoun takes this as Allah not
knowing of those who believe. There are several responses:
1-
The Quran and hadiths make it
clear that Allah knows everything. He knows you when he creates you and whether you are
going to be a believer or a disbeliever. Hence when Allah says that he may know those who
believe, he is trying to communicate with humans on a level in which they understand. Had
the verse said that Allah already knows which among you will believe and so on it would be
some what harder for the Muslims at the time to take in. Rather
the way the verse is said indicates that Allah wants to test the men, and makes it clear
to the men so they know they are being tested and must prove themselves to whether they
indeed believe or not. Allah already knows which ones will believe and so on, but he wants
to send the message out in a way as to test the Muslims. He already has the answers. He
just wants to test you.
2-
As I stated, the verse is a test for Muslims. Through out this life God is always testing
us and so on. This does not mean he does these tests because he does not know the answers.
He already does know the answers, but all humans must be tested. You don’t get a free
ride to heaven. The Quran and over all message of the Quran make it clear that Allah is all-knowing. So when you put the
verses together, you get the big picture that Allah is testing the Muslims, and already
knows the answers. The reason to why Allah said that he 'may know' is because he wanted to
make it simple for humans so they could understand it better. The Muslims would have taken
the verse as meaning to test them, which is exactly what Allah wanted to do, that is he
said it that way so they understood it better.
Shamoun's
second main problem with the verses is when it states: while Allah has NOT YET KNOWN
those who strive hard from among you. Once again
there are several responses to give:
1-
The over all context of the verses is that Allah is testing you, the most accurate and
precise translation is that of Yusuf Ali:
003.142
YUSUFALI: Did ye think that ye would enter
Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (In His Cause) and remained
steadfast?
The
verse is talking about testing you.
2-
Now let us just say the other two translations are more accurate, no problem, let us just
read a couple of passages further on: 003.154
YUSUFALI: After (the excitement) of the
distress, He sent down calm on a band of you overcome with slumber, while another band was
stirred to anxiety by their own feelings, Moved by wrong suspicions of Allah-suspicions
due to ignorance. They said: "What affair is this of ours?" Say thou:
"Indeed, this affair is wholly Allah's." They hide in their minds what they dare
not reveal to thee. They say (to themselves): "If we had had anything to do with this
affair, We should not have been in the slaughter here."
Say: "Even if you had remained in your homes, those for whom death was decreed would
certainly have gone forth to the place of their death"; but (all this was) that Allah
might test what is in your breasts and purge what is in your hearts. For Allah knoweth well the
secrets of your hearts.
And
let us read a couple of passages before the ones Shamoun
posted:
003.073
YUSUFALI: "And believe no one unless he
follows your religion." Say: "True guidance is the Guidance of Allah: (Fear ye) Lest a revelation be sent to someone (else) Like unto that which was
sent unto you? or that those (Receiving such revelation) should
engage you in argument before your Lord?" Say: "All bounties are in the hand of
Allah: He granteth them to whom He pleaseth:
And Allah careth for all, and He knoweth
all things."
So
hence before and after the verses Shamoun posted in which he
is trying to show Allah is not all-knowing, we see passages showing Allah is indeed
all-knowing! Hence when putting everything together you get the
big picture that Allah is all-knowing. Shamoun merely took one
verse out of context. However when you put the verse in context of the entire Quran and the Surah on Allah's
knowledge, it becomes very clear that Allah is indeed all-knowing. So it is clear the last
thing Allah meant when he revealed those passages is that he does not know everything. As
we see in the same Surah Allah reveals he is all knowing. So
putting the verse in its right context indeed shows the opposite of what Shamoun is indicating.
3-
Now let us also say indeed the best translation states that: Allah has NOT YET KNOWN.
This
will be very easy to respond to as we already know the context of the Quran
and the Surah on Allah's knowledge, which is that he knows everything. We already know that Allah knows everything. So
for him to say that he has not yet known something means it is IMPOSSIBLE. Let us post the
entire passage so I can explain what I’m getting at:
Do you
think that you will enter the garden while Allah has NOT YET KNOWN
those who strive hard from among you, and (He has not) known the patient
That
is what Shamoun should've underlined. The context is clear. Do
you THINK you will enter the garden (heaven). Allah is telling
the men and Muslims do they think they will enter the garden while Allah has not yet known
those who have proved themselves. As I said that is something impossible for Allah, to not
know something. Note the important word is when Allah says do you THINK. Meaning do you
believe you will enter heaven while Allah has not yet known if you have indeed proved
yourself?
Again
I will say it. This is something impossible for Allah to not know something. Hence this
means that the man never did anything or proved himself! For Allah not to know you did
something to enter the garden means you never did it! It means you never did something to
prove yourself to enter heaven, the key word is do you THINK. So do you think you will
enter heaven while you have not done anything? For Allah not to know something you did,
which will get you into heaven means you have not done it,
because Allah knows everything, before and after you do it. Hence this means you never
were going to do it, and never did do it! You could some what say Allah is mocking those
who try to outsmart him, because he is saying while he has not yet known, meaning he does
not know, which is something impossible for him. So he is telling them do you think you
will get to heaven while I have not yet known those of you who have done something to earn
it? Meaning you never did do it to earn heaven. Thus the verse by far does not prove
anything of what Shamoun is saying. In fact it makes me admire
Allah even more at such excellent ways in which he conveys the message to mankind!
He wrote:
That which befell you, on the day when the two armies met, was by permission of Allah; that He MIGHT KNOW the true believers; And that He
MIGHT KNOW the hypocrites, unto whom it was said: Come, fight in the way of Allah, or
defend yourselves. They answered: If we knew aught of fighting we would follow you. On
that day they were nearer disbelief than faith. They utter with their mouths a thing which
is not in their hearts. Allah is Best Aware of what they hide. S. 3:166-167 Pickthall
My Response:
Once again, the same response as last time. Allah already knows
everything. He is talking and conveying the message to us in a way in which we will
understand it better. So we understand that when Allah says MAY KNOW or MIGHT KNOW means
that he is testing us to find out. Hence it is easier for the Muslims to understand what
is being meant and what is being asked of them. Allah already knows the outcome. Once
again the overall context of the Quran must be understood and
so on, and also what the Muslims believed which can be found in the hadiths,
which is that Allah is all-knowing. So getting
the big picture shows the opposite of what Shamoun is trying
to convey. Again a more correct translation would be that of Yusuf
Ali:
003.166
YUSUFALI: What ye suffered on the day the two
armies Met, was with the leave of Allah, in order that He might test the believers,-
Allah
is indeed testing the believers.
He wrote:
Then, it may be that you will give up part of what is
revealed to you and your breast will become straitened by it because they say: Why has not
a treasure been sent down upon him or an angel come with him? You are only a warner; and Allah is custodian over all things. S. 11:14 Shakir
My Response:
Surah
11:14 does not say that, it states:
SHAKIR: But if they do
not answer you, then know that it is revealed by Allah's knowledge and that there is no
god but He; will you then submit?
So
Shamoun has mistakenly posted the wrong references, which is
okay, a casual mistake. We will have to wait till he gets the references right so we can
read the context and so on.
He wrote:
Yet it may be, if they believe not in this statement,
that thou (Muhammad) wilt torment thy soul with grief over their footsteps. S. 18:6 Pickthall
My Response:
The
verse in no way shows Allah is not all knowing. God was just saying the way it is, as the Quran makes it clear. Allah knows what your breasts conceal, he
knows your secrets. So the fact is Muhammad did some times get frustrated when some would
not believe and so on. The fact that Allah knows such things of Muhammad’s inner self
shows Allah is all knowing because he knows what you reveal and what you CONCEAL. Shamoun also forgets the Quran is a
different book than the rest. The way it is spoken and so on.
It is done in a beautiful way unlike other books. So this is another example of such
language and the way it is spoken. Allah is once again just speaking in a simple way in
which you will understand, or does Allah always have to say when addressing some one or a
situation that ‘I know this’, ‘I know what you will do’, ‘I know
what you hide’, ‘I know your past’ etc. That is not how it works. Any
Muslim who reads that verse will not say oh my god! Allah does not know. Shamoun is just getting anything he can.
He wrote:
Allâh said: "You are granted your request, O Mûsa (Moses)! And indeed We conferred a
favour on you another time (before). When We inspired your
mother with that which We inspired. Saying: ‘Put him (the child) into the Tabût (a box or a case or
a chest) and put it into the river (
My Response:
Once
again the verses he posted don’t show what he is trying to prove. Allah is once again
speaking in a way in which the human can understand. In this case, it is to Moses. He is
simply telling Moses that maybe the pharaoh will believe. This does not mean Allah does
not know. He is just trying to be simple with Moses. The fact Allah said that shows how
smart he is as well. Had Allah told Moses that pharaoh would not accept or have none of it. Moses would get more scared than he already is. He already has to
go and try and free the children of
He wrote:
It may be thou will kill thy self with grief,
that they do not become Believers. S. 26:3
My Response:
The same
response as the previous verses.
He wrote:
Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they
will not be tested? We did test those before them, and
Allah WILL CERTAINLY KNOW those who are true from those who are false. S. 29:2-3
My Response:
I don’t see where Allah is not all-knowing? Allah will certainly know indeed. He
knows everything
He wrote:
He Who created Death and Life, that He may try
which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;- S. 67:2
My Response:
Yes Allah wants to test you, he already knows the outcome, but we are all faced with
trials during our life.
He wrote:
Say: "I know not whether the (Punishment) which ye are promised is near, or whether
my Lord will appoint for it a distant term. He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make
any one acquainted with His Secrets.- Except an messenger whom
He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers
march before him and behind him, That He MAY KNOW that they have (truly) brought and
delivered the Messages of their Lord: and He encompasses all that is with them, and
takes account of every single thing." S. 72:25-28
My Response:
Once
again the verse is trying to make people understand. Allah is making it simple for us to
understand. He does not want to say things in a way to confuse us. Allah is commanding
Muhammad to say those things to people. Hence this proves Allah is trying to make you
understand things better. Allah already knows everything. Shamoun
cannot simply take one verse of the Quran out of context with
the entire Quran. The Quran is the
best tafsir and explains itself, as in such cases. The fact is
the Quran claims that Allah is all-knowing. So any passage
that SEEMS to show he is not doesn’t mean much and does not mean he is not
all-knowing.
He wrote:
He frowned and
turned away. Because the blind man came unto him. What could
inform thee but that he MIGHT grow (in grace) Or take heed and so the reminder might avail him? S. 80:1-4 Pickthall
My Response:
The same
response as the rest.
He wrote:
Interestingly, much like we find certain Christian groups using biblical passages to deny
God's omniscience, some Muslims have used these Quranic
passages to prove that Allah doesn't know the future. And much like orthodox Christians
have responded to these erring Christians, we find certain Muslims also responding to the
attacks on Allah's omniscience. Mahmoud M. Ayoub lists Ar-Razi's response to those
who used S. 3:140 as proof that Allah does not know the future:
"Razi is interested in the theological problems raised by the phrase
‘in order that God may know.’ He argues that ‘the literal sense of God's
saying, "in order that God may know" would
suggest that God alternated [the days] in order to acquire knowledge. Obviously, this
is impossible of God.’ Razi cites verse 143, and a number of other
verses where this phrase, or one like it, occurs. He alleges that Hisham
b. al-Hakkam, a well-known disciple of the Sixth Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq, used such verses to argue that God does not know
incidents until they occur. ‘The answer of the theologians to this
argument," Razi says, "is that rational proofs have
conclusively established that no change ever occurs in God's knowledge. The linguistic
usage of calling something that is known with the metaphor "knowledge,"
or something that is subject to power with the metaphor "power" is well known.
Thus any Qur'anic verse the literal sense of which indicates
acquisition of knowledge [by God] actually means
the occurrence of a known.
Razi then presents several possible interpretations of this phrase.
‘First that sincerity may be distinguished from hypocrisy and the person of faith
from the rejecter of faith. Secondly, that the friends (awliya’) of God may know, though He attributes this
knowledge to Himself by way of exalting them. Thirdly, that God may judge in accordance
with this distinction, but such judgment cannot happen except with knowledge. Finally,
that God may know this [i.e., faith and patience] to have actually occurred from them,
although He knew that it would occur. This is because recompense must be accorded for
something which actually is, and not for something which is known to occur in the
future.’ Razi seems to prefer the first of these
interpretations (Razi,
IX, pp. 14-18)" (Ayoub, The Qur'an and Its
Interpreters, Volume II, The House of Imran [State
University of New York Press, Albany, 1992], p. 330; bold emphasis ours)
Another
commentator troubled by S. 3:140 was Tabarsi. Ayoub writes:
"Tabarsi is specially concerned with the theological implications of
the phrase ‘in order that God know’ ..
Tabarsi offers a number of explanations of God's knowledge as
described in this verse, all aimed at affirming God's absolute and eternal omniscience.
‘In order that God may know those who truly have faith’ means ‘in order
that He may know them as being distinguished by their faith from all others.’ Hence,
the words ‘in order that He may know’ do not mean being informed, for the
meaning is not that He does not know them as objects of knowledge in themselves, but that
He may know them as distinguished by faith. They may also mean ‘in order that God may
know those who have faith’ by the manifestation of their steadfastness in striving
against their enemies. ‘This is to say, God would treat them as one who knows them to
be in this condition, even though He knows them before the manifestation of their faith as
He does after it. It is that he knows before they had manifested their faith that they
will do so. When they had in fact manifested their faith, He knew them as such; hence
change occurs, not in the knower, but in the known.’ The words may also mean ‘in
order that the friends of God may know,’ though God attributed this knowledge to
Himself by way of honoring them. It is also possible that they
mean ‘in order that the patience of those who shall be patient, the fright of those
who are cowardly, and the faith of the faithful may appear and be known.’ They may
also mean ‘in order that sincerity and hypocrisy of the people may be
manifested’ (Tabarsi,
IV, pp. 208-210)." (Ibid., pp. 331, 332)
The problem with
the preceding explanations is that, unlike the Holy Bible, the Quran
actually provides proof that Allah doesn't know all things. This implies that these verses
are not merely anthropomorphic descriptions of Allah, much like we find in the Holy Bible.
Rather, these are clear indications that Allah's knowledge is not complete. Trying to
produce statements to the contrary would only demonstrate that the Quran
contradicts itself.
My Response:
There is no problem, the only problem is the one you invented by taking verses out of
context. The Quran shows that Allah is all-knowing, so
passages that SEEM to show he is not which is the ones you posted,
do not mean he is not all-knowing, they are just your own limited interpretation. As to
what scholars say, they can say anything they like as long as it does not contradict the Quran. So far scholars who claims Allah
is not all-knowing and does not know the future. I simply don’t listen to that and
just throw it away because the Quran teaches something else,
and Allah's word and teachings come before the scholars.
He wrote:
Compare the following examples and see if indeed Allah does know all things:
Behold, thy LORD
said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Will Thou place therein one who will
make mischief and shed blood? Whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy
(name)?" He said: "I know what ye
know not." And He taught Adam the nature of all things: then he placed him before
the angels and said: "Tell Me the nature of these if ye are right." They said:
"Glory to Thee: of knowledge we have none, save what Thou hast taught us: In truth it
is Thee who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom." He said: "O Adam! Tell them
their natures." When he had told them God said: "Did I not tell you that I know
the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?" And
behold, We said to the angels:
"Bow down to
Adam:" and they bowed down: not so Iblis: he refused and
was haughty: he was of those who reject faith. We said: "O Adam! Dwell thee and thy
wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will;
but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression." S. 2:30-35
Two main
theological problems arise from this passage. First, how did the angels know what the
condition of man would be prior to his creation, a fact obviously not known by Allah since
he rebukes the angels for their statements by declaring his omniscience.
And yet still the angels were correct. Are the angels also omniscient, or even worse, is
Allah not omniscient since the angels were obviously right? Secondly, was it not unfair
for Allah to teach Adam the name of all things then proceed to challenge the angels to do
likewise knowing full well they could not do so, and then have Adam name them in order to
prove that the angels were wrong in questioning God? This portrays God as a deceiver.
My Response:
Shamoun
must know nothing about Islam. In Islam we believe that we were not the first people on
earth. We believe there were another race living on this planet
prior before us. This race happened to be violent and caused a lot of bloodshed. So the
angels were making such a comment on what they have seen of the things created by Allah.
So they rightly said will you make a people who will make mischief and cause blood-shed
like the others? Then Allah rightly told them he knows what they know not, for he is God
and they have no right to question what he does. Indeed we have caused blood-shed and
mischief in the land, however though, is it on the same level as the prior race? No it is
not, this race that Allah has created (humans) are not as bad and corrupt as the previous.
We actually have a lot of people who have faith and so on. So no the angels were not fully
correct and did not know what Allah knows which is that this race (humans) will be
obedient and obey their lord, not all, but a lot will and a lot of good will come out of
what which is indeed evident.
Secondly no
it was not unfair for Allah to challenge the angels to name all of the things.
The angels questioned Allah's actions in a way as if they knew better and knew the future
and what would happen better than he does. So Allah basically then
challenges them to name all things since they seem to be able to correct Allah and know
more knowledge about the future by questioning him. Now note what the angels say: They said:
"Glory to Thee: of knowledge we have none, save what Thou hast taught us: In truth it
is Thee who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom
Putting
that with the entire context of them questioning Allah, it all joins together. Allah
challenges them to name all things since they question him. They fail to do so and then
you can see from their reaction that they realize they were wrong in question Allah's
actions. So there is no deception, Shamoun is just trying to
come up with whatever he can, but very laughable indeed. As a matter of fact it is God in
the Bible who did not know what he was getting when he created man:
6
And it
repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7
And
the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both
man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
So
God regretted making us, why? Did he not know we would be bad? It seems he did not, and it
seems he is too weak to deal with it. Another problem with this is not only does it show God in the Bible as not all-knowing, God did not stick to his
promise. He did not destroy us. He said he would destroy us for it repented him that he
made us, yet he didn’t keep his promise and let us live. Hence he changed his mind,
which the Bible claims is something God does not do. However so he did
change his mind, so we have two problems in one. Christians may argue that when God
said he will destroy us, he meant on judgement day, however so such an explanation will be
laughable indeed. The context of the verses does not show that. God was speaking for that
exact moment.
For
more information regarding God being not all-knowing and changing his mind in the Bible
please visit:
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Bible/abrogate.htm
He wrote:
To see the
problems this passage caused Muslim exegetes, one needs to only read Mahmoud
M. Ayoub's The Qur'an and Its Interpreters, Volume 1, State University of New
York Press, Albany, 1984, pp. 73-79.
Then, even after
that, your hearts were hardened and became as
rocks, OR WORSE THAN ROCKS, for hardness. For indeed there are rocks from out which
rivers gush, and indeed there are rocks which split asunder so that water floweth from them. And indeed there are rocks which fall down for
the fear of Allah. Allah is not unaware of what ye do. S. 2:74 Pickthall
Which is it, did
the hearts of the Israelites become hardened as rocks or was it worse than that? And how
come Allah can't tell us the exact condition of their hearts?
Has thou not turned
thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children of Israel after (the time of) Moses? they said to a prophet (that
was) among them: "Appoint for us a king, that we may fight in the cause of
Allah." He said: "Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight, that ye
will not fight?" They said: "How could we refuse to fight in the cause of Allah,
seeing that we were turned out of our homes and our families?" but when they were
commanded to fight, they turned back, except a small band among them. But Allah Has full knowledge of those who do wrong. Their Prophet said to them: "Allah hath
appointed Talut as
king over you." They said: "How can he exercise authority over us when we are
better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted, with wealth in
abundance?" He said: "Allah hath chosen him above you, and hath gifted him
abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess: Allah Granteth
His authority to whom He pleaseth. Allah is All-Embracing, and
He knoweth all things." And (further) their Prophet said
to them: "A sign of his authority is that there shall come to you the Ark of the
Covenant, with (an assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by
the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a symbol for
you if ye indeed have faith." When Talut set forth with the armies, he said:
"Allah will test you at the stream: if any drinks of its water, he goes not with my
army: Only those who taste not of it go with me: A mere sip out of the hand is
excused." But they all drank of it, EXCEPT A
FEW. When they crossed the river,- he and the faithful ones
with him,- they said: "This day we cannot cope with Goliath and his forces." But
those who were convinced that they must meet Allah, said: "How oft, by Allah's will,
hath a small force vanquished a big one? Allah is with those who steadfastly
persevere." When they advanced to meet Goliath and his forces, they prayed: "Our
Lord! Pour out constancy on us and make our steps firm: Help us against those that reject
faith." By Allah's will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and Allah gave him
power and wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed. And did not Allah check one set
of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief: But Allah is
full of bounty to all the worlds. These are the Signs of Allah. We rehearse them to thee
in truth: verily thou art one of the messengers. S. 2:246-252
Unlike the Quran, the Holy Bible identifies the prophet as Samuel. Furthermore,
there are glaring errors throughout this section, which we cannot delve into for the sake
of space. For now, we recommend the following article which provides an in-depth study
regarding the gross errors of The story of Talut <../Quran/Sources/talut.html>.
We would simply
like to note in passing that an all-knowing God should have known the name of the prophet
as well as the actual number of those who didn't drink.
The (Brethren) sold
him for a miserable price, for a FEW dirhams counted out: in such low estimation did they hold him!
S. 12:20
Allah can only
guess that Joseph was sold for a few dirhams. Contrast this
with the biblical account:
"So when the Midianite merchants came by, his brothers pulled Joseph up out of
the cistern and sold him for twenty shekels of
silver to the Ishmaelites, who took him to
And there entered
with him two young men in the prison. One of them said: "Verily, I saw myself (in a
dream) pressing wine." The other said: "Verily, I saw myself (in a dream)
carrying bread on my head and birds were eating thereof." (They said): "Inform
us of the interpretation of this. Verily, we think you are one of the doers of good."
He said: "No food will come to you as your provision, but I will inform (in
wakefulness) its interpretation before it (the food) comes. This is of that which my Lord
has taught me. Verily, I have abandoned the religion of a people that believe not in Allâh and are disbelievers in the Hereafter. And I have followed
the religion of my fathers, - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and never could we attribute any
partners whatsoever to Allâh. This is from the Grace of Allâh to us and to mankind, but most men thank not. O two
companions of the prison! Are many different lords better or Allâh,
the One, the Irresistible? You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have
named, you and your fathers, for which Allâh has sent down no
authority. The command is for none but Allâh. He has
commanded that you worship none but Him, that is the straight religion, but most men know
not. O two companions of the prison! As for one of you, he will pour out wine for his lord
to drink; and as for the other, he will be
crucified and birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning which
you both did inquire." And he said to the one whom he knew
to be saved: "Mention me to your lord." But Satan made him forget to mention it
to his Lord. So (Joseph) stayed in prison a few (more) years. The king said: "I
do see (in a vision) seven fat kine, whom seven lean ones
devour, and seven green ears of corn, and seven (others) withered. O ye chiefs! Expound to
me my vision if it be that ye can interpret visions." They said: "A confused medley of dreams: and we are not skilled in the
interpretation of dreams.’ But the man who had been released, one of the two (who had
been in prison) and who now remembered him after
(so long) a space of time, said: "I will tell you the truth of its
interpretation: send ye me (therefore)." S. 12:36-45
Not only is Allah
uncertain regarding the length of Joseph's stay in prison, but also erroneously claims
that the baker was crucified.
My Response:
None
of the verses Shamoun posted present any problem for me, none
at all. I just laugh at how Shamoun tries to find anything and
make an argument out of it. The baker was not crucified? Says who? You’re corrupt
Bible?
He wrote:
Ibn Kathir comments:
<But Shaytan
made him forget to mention it to his master.>
that
it refers to the man who was saved. As was said by Mujahid,
Muhammad bin Ishaq and several
others. As for ‘a few years’, or, Bida‘ in
Arabic, it means three to nine, according to Mujahid and Qatadah. Wahb bin Munabbih said, "Ayub suffered from the illness for seven years, Yusuf
remained in prison for seven years and Bukhtanassar
(Nebuchadnezzar- Chaldean king of Babylon) was tormented for
seven years." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir
(Abridged) Volume 5, Surah Hud to Surat Al-Isra', Verse 38, abridged
by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam
Publishers & Distributors, Rihadh, Houston, New York,
Lahore; First Edition, July 2000], pp. 170-171; bold emphasis ours)
My Response:
A
few years does not have to mean three to nine years. That is just one possible explanation
He wrote:
Note what the
following secular references state regarding the implementation of crucifixion:
"Crucifixion,
an important method of capital punishment, particularly among the Persians, Seleucids,
Jews, Carthaginians, and Romans [was practiced] from
about the 6th century BC to the 4th century AD. Constantine the Great, the
first Christian emperor, abolished it in the
CROSS ... Crucifixion is first attested among the Persians
(cf. Herodotus, Hist. i.128.2; iii.132.2, 159.1), perhaps derived
from the Assyrian impalement. It was later employed by the Greeks, especially Alexander
the Great, and by the Carthaginians, from whom the Romans adapted the practice as a
punishment for slaves and non-citizens, and occasionally for citizens guilty of treason.
Although in the Old Testament the corpses of blasphemers or idolaters punished by stoning
might be hanged "on a tree" as further humiliation (Deut. 21:23), actual
crucifixion was not introduced in Palestine until Hellenistic times. The Seleucid
Antiochus IV Epiphanes crucified those Jews who would not
accept hellenization (Josephus
Now contrast this
with the more detailed, genuine biblical account:
"Some time
later, the cupbearer and the baker of the king of
Not only does the
biblical account give us the time frame, it also avoids the gross Quranic
error that the chief baker was crucified, when in fact he was hanged.
My Response:
So
there was not one single crucifixion during the time of Joseph in Egypt? To say such a
thing is indeed a statement of arrogance.
He wrote:
In recounting the
story of the Sleepers in the Cave, Muhammad states:
Or dost thou think
that the Companions of the Cave and of the Inscription were wonders among Our Sign?
Behold, the youths betook themselves to the Cave: they said, "Our Lord! bestow on us Mercy from Thyself, and dispose of our affair for us in
the right way!" Then We draw (a veil) over their ears, for a number of years, in the Cave, (so that they
heard not): Then We roused them, in order to test
which of the two parties was best at calculating the term of years they had tarried!
We relate to thee their story in truth: they were youths who believed in their Lord, and
We advanced them in guidance: We gave strength to their hearts: Behold, they stood up and
said: "Our Lord is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth: never shall we call upon
any god other than Him: if we did, we should indeed have uttered an enormity! These our
people have taken for worship gods other than Him: why do they not bring forward an
authority clear (and convincing) for what they do? Who doth more wrong than such as invent
a falsehood against Allah? When ye turn away from them and the things they worship other
than Allah, betake yourselves to the Cave: Your Lord will shower His mercies on you and
disposes of your affair towards comfort and ease. Thou wouldst have seen the sun, when it
rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to
the left, while they lay in the open space in the midst of the Cave. Such are among the
Signs of Allah. He whom Allah, guides is rightly guided; but he whom Allah leaves to stray,- for him wilt thou find no protector to lead him to the
Since Muhammad's
Lord knows their number, why didn't he tell his prophet how many they actually were?
My Response:
What’s
the problem if he does not tell him the numbers?
He wrote:
The Romans have
been defeated - In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will
soon be victorious - WITHIN A FEW YEARS. With
Allah is the Command, in the past and in the Future: on that Day shall the Believers
rejoice- With the help of Allah. He gives victory to whom He
will, and He is Exalted in Might, Most Merciful. S. 30:2-4
Again, here is Ibn Kathir:
He [Ibn Abbas] said, "They were
defeated and then they were victorious." He said, "The idolators
wanted the Persians to prevail over the Romans, because they were idol worshipers, and the
Muslims wanted the Romans to prevail over the Persians, because they were People of the
Book. This was mentioned to Abu Bakr who mentioned it to the
Messenger of Allah. The Messenger of Allah said ...
((They will prevail.))
Abu Bakr mentioned this to the idolators,
and they said, "Set a time limit for that, and if we prevail, we will get such and
such; and if you prevail, you will get such and such." So he set A LIMIT OF FIVE YEARS, AND THEY (THE ROMANS) DID NOT
PREVAIL. Abu Bakr mentioned that to the Messenger of Allah
and he said ...
((Why did you not make it less
than))
[I (the narrator)
think he meant less than ten]. Sa'id bin Jubayr
said: "Bid' means less than ten." Then
the Romans were victorious...
Abu ‘Isa At-Tirmidhi recorded that Niyar bin Mukram Al-Aslami
said: "When the following Ayat
were revealed...
<Alif
Lam Mim. The Romans have been defeated.
In the nearest land, and they, after their defeat, will be victorious. In
Bid' years.>
on
the day they were revealed, the Persians were prevailing over the Romans. The Muslims
wanted the Romans to prevail over them (the Persians), because they were both people who
followed a Book. Concerning this Allah said...
<And on that day, the
believers will rejoice - with the help of Allah. He helps whom he wills, and He is the
All-Mighty, the Most Merciful.>
The Quraysh, on the other hand, wanted the Persians to prevail, neither
of them were people who followed a Book and neither of them believed in the Resurrection.
When Allah revealed these Ayat,
Abu Bakr went out proclaiming throughout Makkah...
< Alif
Lam Mim. The Romans have been defeated.
In the nearest land, and they, after their defeat, will be victorious. In
Bid' years.>
Some of the Quraysh said to Abu Bakr: ‘This is (a bet) between us and you. Your companion claims that the
Romans will defeat the Persians within three to
nine years, so why not have a bet between us and you?’ Abu Bakr
said, ‘Yes.’ This was before betting had been forbidden. So, Abu Bakr and the idolators made a bet, and
they said to Abu Bakr: ‘What
do you think, Bid' means something between three
and nine years. So let us agree on the middle.’ So they agreed on six years. Then six years passed without the Romans being
victorious, so the idolators took what had bet with Abu Bakr. When the seventh year came and the Romans were finally
victorious over the Persians, the Muslims REBUKED
Abu Bakr for agreeing on six years. He said: ‘BECAUSE ALLAH SAID: "In Bid' years."’ At that time many
people became Muslims." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir,
Abridged, Volume 7 Surat An-Nur to
Surat Al-Ahzab, Verse 50,
first edition August 2000, pp. 518-520; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Ibn Kathir's comments clearly highlight
the embarrassment the expression "a few years" turned out to be even for the
Muslims. The imprecision of the phrase led Abu Bakr to make a
bet that the prophecy would be fulfilled within five-six years. Abu Bakr
lost the bet. Muhammad and the others stepped in and corrected him only after the event
didn't transpire within the five-six year period. This implies that Abu Bakr was only corrected to save face in the eyes of the pagans. All
this could have been prevented had Allah given the exact time in the first place, as
opposed to giving a vague time frame that ended up embarrassing the Muslims
My Response:
You
try and mock Muslims and the correct prophecy, to start off there is nothing wrong with
the verse. WITHIN A FEW years does not have to mean 5, 6, 7 or 10. Only Allah knows and
you if you give a possible explanation and are wrong then so be
it, there is no embarrassment.
He wrote:
The Quran mentions the story of Jonah where he was sent to Nineveh:
And We sent him (on a mission) to a hundred thousand (men) OR MORE. S. 37:147
Allah can only
assume that there may be more than 100,000 people living in
"But
My Response:
Since
we are on the topic of numbers, let us just quote some passages of the Bible to show that
the God of the corrupt Bible does not know how to count, or remember numbers:
II
Samuel
I Chronicles
I
Chronicles
I Kings
II
Samuel 24:13 So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF
FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three
months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I Chronicles
2
Kings 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to
reign, and he reigned in
2 Chronicles 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began
to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in
26th
year of the reign of Asa I Kings 16:6-8
36th year of the reign of Asa I 2 Chronicles 16:1
How
old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
22 in 2 Kings 8:26
42 in 2 Chronicle 22:2
So
in act it is in the Bible that God keeps on mixing numbers up. As for the verse he posted
from the Quran, the same response that I have been giving all
along applies to the verse as well.
He wrote:
Which was it? Was
the entity as close as the distance of two bow lengths, or less? Didn't Allah know?
And those Foremost (in Faith) will be Foremost (in the Hereafter). These
will be those Nearest to Allah. In Gardens of Bliss: A number of people from those of old, And A FEW from
those of later times. (They will be) on couches encrusted (with gold and precious
stones), Reclining on them, facing each other. Round about them will (serve) youths of
perpetual (freshness), With goblets, (shining) beakers, and
cups (filled) out of clear-flowing fountains: No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication: And with fruits, any
that they may select: And the flesh of fowls, any that they may desire. And (there will
be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes,- Like
unto Pearls well-guarded. A Reward for the deeds of their past (life).
Not frivolity will they hear therein, nor any mischief,- Only
the saying, "Peace! Peace". The Companions of the Right Hand,-
What will be the Companions of the Right Hand? (They will be) among Lote-trees
without thorns, Among Talh trees with flowers (or fruits)
piled one above another,- In shade long-extended, By water flowing constantly, And fruit
in abundance. Whose season is not limited, nor (supply) forbidden, And
on couches raised high. We have created them of special creation. And made them virgin -
pure (and undefiled), - Full of love (for their mates), equal in age,-
For the Companions of the Right Hand. A (goodly) number from those of old, And a (goodly)
NUMBER from those of later times. S. 56:10-40
Allah must have
forgotten what he had said in this chapter. He first says that only a few from later times
will enter the Garden. Allah then contradicts this by saying that a number of those from
the later period will enter.
My Response:
There
is no contradiction. Allah said a few from the later, and then later on says a number of
them, this is the same thing.
Secondly
there could also be a difference, the first one you show is of
those nearest to Allah, the next one you bold is about companions of the right hand. I
wonder how you missed that. Either way both work for me, either way you could disagree
with one, but will still have the other response, you choose which response you prefer.
He wrote:
Further,
By the Star when it
goes down,- Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. It is no less than Inspiration sent down to
him: He was taught by one Mighty in Power, Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately
form); While he was in the highest part of the horizon: Then he
approached and came closer, And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths OR (EVEN) NEARER; S. 53:1-9
My Response:
Same
response as I have been giving the entire time.
He wrote:
Finally, in
relation to Muslim fasting in the month of Ramadan, we are told:
Permitted to you,
on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye
are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly
among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and
seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appears to you distinct
from its black thread; then complete your fast till the night appears; but do not
associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are limits (set
by) Allah. Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that
they may learn self-restraint. S. 2:187
According to this
verse, Muslims are to begin their fast during daylight hours when a distinction can be
made between a white and black thread. Ibn Kathir states:
The verse <and
seek that which Allah has ordained for you.> means have children <And eat and drink
until the white thread of dawn appears to you distinct from the black thread, then
complete your fast till the nightfall.> This shows Allah's
Forgiveness and Mercy. He has made eating, drinking and intercourse lawful throughout the night of the fasting. <And seek
that which Allah has ordained for you> that is seek what Allah has permitted you to do,
but interpreting it in terms of having children is more recommendable. As for <And eat
and drink until the white thread of dawn appears to you distinct from the black
thread.> that is, until one can distinguish
between the light of the day and the darkness of the night and to clarify things, He
said <of dawn>.
On the authority of
Adiy Ibn Hatim,
Al-Bukhari narrated, "O, Allah's Messenger! What is the
meaning of the white thread distinct from the black thread? Are these two threads?"
He said, "you are not intelligent if you watch the two
threads." He then added, "No, it is the
darkness of the night and the whiteness of the day"...
<Then complete
your fast till the nightfall.> According to Shari'ah, Iftar should take place at
sunset as mentioned in the Sahihayn
on the authority of Amirul-Mu'minin,
Umar Al-Khattab that the Prophet
said: "When night falls from this side and the
day vanishes from this side and the sun sets, then the fasting person should break his
fast." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir,
part 2, Surah Al-Baqarah, ayat 142 to 252, abridged by Sheikh Muhammad Nasib Ar-Rafa'i [Al-Firdous
Ltd., London, 1998 first edition], pp. 106-107, 108; bold emphasis ours)
The hadiths record:
Narrated Abdullah
bin Umar:
Allah's Apostle
mentioned Ramadan and said, "Do not fast unless
you SEE the crescent (of Ramadan), and do not give up fasting till you SEE the crescent (of Shawwal), but if the
sky is overcast (if you cannot see it), then act on estimation (i.e. count Sha'ban as 30
days)." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume
3, Book 31, Number 130)
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet or
Abu-l-Qasim said, "Start fasting on SEEING the crescent (of Ramadan), and give up
fasting on SEEING the crescent (of Shawwal),
and if the sky is overcast (and you cannot see it), complete thirty days of Sha'ban."
(Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 31, Number 133)
The only problem
with this command is that in certain parts of the world the sun doesn't set for weeks. For
instance, no person living above the
A Muslim may
claim that Muslim scholars have solved this problem through a careful analysis of certain hadiths of their prophet. This doesn't solve the dilemma since this
only indicates that the Quran is incomplete and that Allah
needed fallible humans to figure out a solution to this problem. All this could have been
avoided had Allah simply not mentioned the need to begin the fast by distinguishing
between a white and black thread. This indicates that Allah didn't know the problems the
Arctic Circle would pose to his command of fasting, which provides additional proof that
Allah does not know all things.
In conclusion,
the evidence from the Quran demonstrates that Allah is unaware
of many things, and is unable to recall events accurately. His knowledge of both past and
future events is incomplete, and often needs to take guesses. This demonstrates that Allah
is not the true God of the Holy Bible, Yahweh Elohim who is
not just perfect in wisdom and knowledge, but is also perfect in all his ways:
"He is the
Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways
are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he." Deuteronomy 32:4
"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is flawless. He is a shield
for all who take refuge in him." Psalm
"The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple." Psalm 19:7
Amen. Come Lord
Jesus. We love you always.
My Response:
Scholars
according to hadiths have given a verdict that Muslims in this
situation should fast according to the timings of Mecca and Medina.
AMEEN.
In Service of the all-knowing powerful true God who is indeed ALLAH. We love you always!
My Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.
Rebuttals to Sam Shamoun's Articles section.
Sami Zaatari's Rebuttals section.