My 'Open Challenge' response #1:
Below is my response to a rebuttal I received for my 'Open Challenge'. For your convenience, please note that all of the links that are provided in this article will be displayed on a separate window once you click on any of them.
He Wrote:
Islam In The Bible?
I am not a Jewish rabbi or a Christian minister. I am a 21-year old logic student, as well as being a Chinese Christian. In the interests of presenting an unbiased argument, however, I will attempt to respond to your "challenges" from a purely secular (and logical) perspective.
Your final conclusion is that Islam is "true", and this is supported by the following sub-conclusions:
1. Mohammed’s liberation of Mecca fulfills the prophecy of Deuteronomy 33:2.
2. Isaiah 21:7 prophesizes the coming of Mohammed.
3. All Muslims are blessed because Genesis 12:1-3 states that all decedents of Abraham will be blessed
>Conclusions 1-3 suggest that the Bible predicts the coming of Islam
>Therefore Islam is true
My Response:
Even though I agree with what you said, but I respectfully disagree with two things:
1- My 3 open challenges are not the only points in the Bible that foretold Islam. I only used them because I didn't want my article to contain too much points and become too hard to read and address.
2- You said "Therefore Islam is true" in the last line above. Islam's Truth is absolutely not limited to the Bible. Let alone the three small points I raised from the Bible. Islam has ample miracles and Truthful claims that proved it to be the Truth from Allah Almighty. While the Bible for instance suggests and claims that the earth is a flat disc, the Noble Quran 1500 years ago claimed that the earth is egg-shaped. For more examples, please visit Science in Islam.
Now please don't get me wrong here. The Noble Quran is not a science book. It's not a book of mathematical equations. No, it's a Holy Book that contains instructions from Allah Almighty that guide us through life, and most importantly teaches us how to worship the One True Living GOD Almighty. Unlike the Bible, when Allah Almighty makes a what we call today a "scientific" claim, it was proven scientifically to be true. So, while the Bible was written and altered by men (mysterious authors as the NIV Bible theologians put it) who weren't men of GOD Almighty, the Noble Quran truly remains until today perfect in every way, and for sure proved itself beyond any doubt that it is from Allah Almighty.
If you read the Noble Quran, you will see that it doesn't talk much about Jesus and Christians. Islam does not revolve around the Bible and its claims. My open challenge here was only intended to show Christians that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was foretold in the their Book as Allah Almighty claimed in the Noble Quran. Nothing more and nothing less.
He Wrote:
Let’s begin by examining each of the sub-conclusions:
Conclusion 1 – Mohammed’s liberation of Mecca fulfills the prophecy of Deuteronomy 33:2.
Your argument is constructed in the following manner:
| Premise 1 | The events of Deuteronomy 33:2 have not come to pass within biblical chronology. |
| Premise 2 | Mount Paran refers to Mecca. |
| Premise 3 | The "ten thousands of saints" are soldiers of Mohammed’s army. |
| Premise 4 | From Mohammed "came a fiery law for them." |
| Conclusion | Mohammed’s liberation of Mecca fulfills the prophecy of Deuteronomy 33:2. |
For the argument to be sound, all the premises must be true.
Let’s begin with an exposition of Deuteronomy 33:2. "The LORD came from Sinai, and dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, and He came with ten thousands of saints; from His right hand came a fiery law for them." This verse does not state that a prophet will lead an army of 10,000 into Mecca – it suggests that God "came with ten thousands of saints" to pass a "fiery law" from Mount Paran.
With that in mind, the first premise becomes debatable. Any number of biblical events could qualify for the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 33:2. Deuteronomy 33 is entitled "Moses’ Final Blessing on Israel". It is entirely possible that Moses himself was the "right hand" of the LORD, handing down "a fiery law" (ten commandments) to the children of Israel from Mount Paran (possibly another name for Mount Sinai) in Exodus 19-20.
My Response:
I first of all want to invite the reader to read Exodus, chapters 19 and 20 from the Bible that you mentioned. They're not too long to read. Where do you see any number of ten thousand for Moses? Also, my argument in this point wasn't only limited to Deuteronomy 33:2. If you read Jude 1:14-15 (which I already mentioned in my open challenge) which came many many decades after Deuteronomy 33:2 and Prophet Moses peace be upon him himself, then you'll see that it confirms that the Moses' prophecy has yet to come. I will repaste Jude 1:14-15 for the reader's convenience:
"And Enoch [Idris in Arabic, one of Allah Almighty's Prophets peace be upon all of them to the people of Israel.] also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14-15)"
There two important points we need to pay close attention to here:
1- Moses prophesied that 10,000 men of GOD Almighty will liberate the city of Paran from evil.
2- Paran will be an ungodly place before it gets liberated.
If I prove to you that the Bible's Paran is indeed without any doubt Islam's Mecca, would you then agree with me that these Prophecies in Deuteronomy and Jude are indeed foretelling Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him?
If you're answer is yes, then the following is the proof. If it's no, then I am sorry, but you would be then a biased and closed minded Christian:
Please visit: The city of Mecca in the Bible. This article contains Biblical verses and pictures that prove my point.
He Wrote:
Premise 2 is again debatable. There is no exhaustive evidence to suggest that Mount Paran is Mecca.
On your website, you state that:
The Bible clearly says that Paran is south of Sinai in Egypt;
"He said: 'The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.' (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"The NIV states that "He came with myriads of holy ones from the south" – this could mean that only the "holy ones" (not the LORD) came from the south, which is highly probable since NKJV makes no mention of the LORD himself coming from the south. Assuming the LORD did come from the south, I can reconstruct your argument in the following form:
| Premise 1 | The LORD came from Sinai. |
| Premise 2 | He came from the south. |
| Premise 3 | He shone forth from Mount Paran. |
| Supported Conclusion | The LORD came from Sinai (the south) to
Mount Paran, where He shone forth. Therefore, Paran is north of Sinai. |
| Given Conclusion | Therefore Paran is south of Sinai. |
This argument is invalid because it has committed the fallacy of ignoratio elenchi (missing the point). The premises are irrelevant to the given conclusion; instead, they support a different conclusion. Biblical scholars agree that Mount Paran was located in "a desert tract forming the northeastern division of the peninsula of Sinai".
Premise 3 is unlikely to be true simply because "ten thousands of saints" could be any multiple of 10,000. There could have been 20, 30, 50, or 100 thousand saints – the NIV Bible simply chooses to construe this as "myriads of holy ones". If Deuteronomy 33:2 had read "ten thousand saints" instead, there would be more reason to believe that Premise 3 is true.
Premise 4 is false. If Deuteronomy 33:2 is the prophecy of Mohammed’s coming, it would follow that from him "came a fiery law for them." In the context, "them" can mean either children of Israel or the "ten thousands of saints". According to your account, Mohammed did not bring "a fiery law" to either of them; he brought an army of 10,000 to liberate Mecca. Hence, the premise is false.
Since the truth of the first 3 premises cannot be substantially corroborated, and Premise 4 is false, we cannot conclude that Mohammed’s liberation of Mecca fulfills the prophecy of Deuteronomy 33:2.
My Response:
Again, please visit The city of Mecca in the Bible. The Bible gave ample proofs that Paran is Mecca. Paran by the way was also called "Baca" in the Bible, which is very close to Maca or Mecca. Paran in the Bible was also referred to as the land of Kedar, the son of Ishmael. The ancient Egyptians are not Arabs. Abraham took Ishmael and his mother Hagar (who as an Arab) out of Egypt all together. Also, the Bible in Genesis 25:13 says that towns and nations were named after Ishmael's sons. The verse even links Kedar with "Ancient Arabs". Arabic history tells us that the Arabian desert in what we call today "Saudi Arabia", was called the region of Kedar. The city of Mecca as you know is in that region, and the House of GOD Almighty, Kaaba, that Abraham peace be upon him built is also in that region.
There is absolutely no historical evidence that shows or supports that Paran was in the Egyptian Sinai desert. Do you have any that you can share with us? I welcome your input and look forward to it. But until then, it is crystal clear that the Bible's city of Paran is Islam's Holy City of Mecca. Again, please visit The city of Mecca in the Bible to see all the details and proofs. Also, please visit: The yearly pilgrimage to Mecca was Prophesied in the Noble Quran to last for ever.
He Wrote:
Conclusion 2 – Isaiah 21:7 prophesizes the coming of Mohammed
| Premise 1 | Isaiah 21:7 prophesizes the coming of a prophet who will ride a camel. |
| Premise 2 | Mohammed rode a camel. |
| Conclusion | Isaiah 21:7 prophesizes the coming of Mohammed. |
First of all, we cannot affirm the truth of the first premise. Isaiah 21 is entitled "The Fall of Babylon Predicted", and verse 7 reads, "And he saw a chariot with a pair of horseman, a chariot of donkeys, and a chariot of camels, and he listened earnestly with great care." There is no evidence in the context to suggest that this verse relates to Jesus or Mohammed, since neither was involved in the fall of Babylon.
Even if we assume the premises are true, this argument is invalid and takes on the form of modus ponens (affirming the consequent). To illustrate the invalidity of this argument form, consider the following:
| Premise 1 | If Napoleon were in fatal car accident, he would be dead (True). |
| Premise 2 | Napoleon is dead (True). |
| Conclusion | Therefore, Napoleon was in a fatal car accident (False). |
My Response:
The event of "Fall of Babylon" has nothing to do with the Prophecy. Prophet Isaiah saw the two chariots riding the camel and donkey, but he never said that they will do it during the time of Babel's destruction. It is similar to when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him predicted that the King of Persia was going to fall and his empire will be invaded by the Muslims, and the Kingdom of Rome will be shaken, while he was farming. According to history, the Muslims did indeed invade Persia (Iran today) and converted it to Islam. They also did defeat the Christian Romans and shook their empire.
The point is: Him farming and him seeing the fall of Persia and the defeat of Rome are separate. They are not associated. You can't conclude that Persia was going to fall and Rome get defeated by the time Muhammad finished farming on that day. That would be a wrong and illogical conclusion.
Anyway back to the subject, so the fall of Babylon and Isaiah's Prophecy are not associated. Also, Jesus peace be upon him did fulfill one part of Isaiah 21:7. Jesus as you might know came 700 years after Isaiah. I will again repaste the verse (Isaiah 21:7) for the reader's convenience:
"And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed: (From the King James Version Bible, Isaiah 21:7)"
And now I will also repaste Jesus' fulfillment to one part of the Prophecy:
"And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
(John 12:14)"The quote
"as it is written" is referring to Isaiah 21:7, unless you can prove to me otherwise. The Bible's New Testament did not fulfill the riding of the camel Prophecy. That Prophecy was not fulfilled in the entire Bible! Only Islam fulfilled it. Again, please reader my open challenge #2 to read the details about Prophet Muhammad fulfilling the Prophecy, and how his camel even played an important role in solving a problem. I do not wish to repaste a great deal of information here.
He Wrote:
Conclusion 3 – All Muslims are blessed because Genesis 12:1-3 states that all decedents of Abraham will be blessed.
| Premise 1 | Genesis 12:1-3 states that all decedents of Abraham will be blessed. |
| Premise 2 | All Muslims are descendents of Abraham. |
| Conclusion | Therefore all Muslims are blessed because Genesis 12:1-3 states that all decedents of Abraham will be blessed. |
You have stated on your website that Ishmael is the "father of the Muslims". According to the Bible, Abraham had two sons – Ishmael and Isaac. "Descendents of Abraham" would then be exclusively composed of two distinct ethnic groups – descendents of Ishmael (modern day Arabs, not Muslims) and descendents of Isaac (modern day Jews). Since Black American Muslims, Malay Muslims, African Muslims and Indian Muslims cannot trace their ethnic lineage back to Ishmael, they are not descendents of Abraham. Premise 2 is false, which would imply that the argument is unsound.
The only logical conclusion that we can make from the first premise is that Arabs and Jews are blessed (regardless of religion). There is strong evidence to suggest this conclusion is true. Arabs control the world’s largest supply of oil and enjoy immense wealth as a result. Israel was miraculously restored in 1948, and Jews are among the most talented people in the world today (nearly a fifth of Nobel Prize winners are Jewish, including Albert Einstein).
As a side note, Genesis 12:1 reads, "Get out of your country, from your family and from your father's house, to a land that I will show you." A few verses later, "they came to the land of Canaan" (Genesis 12:5). The context clearly indicates that "the land that I will show you" is Canaan. The land of Canaan is modern day Syria; hence, Genesis 12:1 could not possibly be referring to Mecca (which is located in Saudi Arabia).
My Response:
It is important to know that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had a direct blood relationship with Ishmael peace be upon him. This is shown at this link: Muhammad's family tree that shows his direct link with Ishmael peace be upon him.
The "great nation" that will come from Abraham's Ishmael's side is the Islamic nation. The Arabs before Islam were pagans. They had many gods and they were living in complete darkness, where the strong ate the weak, and fathers buried their daughters are age of 4 (it was culturally set at the age of 4) to avoid shame, and to also protect the small and weak tribe from being too venerable or too tempting to be invaded because they have a high number of women who can be used as slave girls.
Islam came and ended the darkness that Arabs were living in. It lifted the status of women really high, and it ended the Judeo-Christian and pagan slavery that was prevailing in Arabia and else where. So Islam is clearly the Light of GOD Almighty that ended paganism and slavery. And since Muhammad had a direct blood relationship with Abraham, how then the Islamic nation is not the "great nation" that GOD Almighty promised Prophet Abraham in the Bible?
As to Israel, this is a long topic that was addressed in great details at: What is the place of Jesus, Jews and Christians in Islam? section. Please look at the "The "Chosen People?!" of GOD, the End of Times and Gog and Magog" section to see what Islam said about the Jews and Israel, and why things are happening today.
As to Mecca being in the land of Canon, just earlier you suggested that Paran could've be in the Sinai desert according to Exodus 19-20. And now you claim that it was possibly in what we call today "Syria". Well, it is obvious that the name "Region of Kedar" didn't exist when Abraham took Hagar and Ishmael out of Egypt, because Kedar wasn't even born yet. So the name "land of Canon" could've very well included the entire Middle Eastern region at that time, since there weren't much nations/tribes at that time in the Middle East.
Remember that Paran like I said above was also called "Baca" (which is close to Maca or Mecca), and towns and nations were named after Ishmael's sons. Remember also that Arabic history tells us that the region that Mecca today exists in was called "The Region of Kedar". Again, please visit: The city of Mecca in the Bible.
He Wrote:
Final Conclusion – Islam is true
| Premise | The Bible predicts the coming of Islam. |
| Conclusion | Islam is true. |
The premise can be discounted since the 3 sub-conclusions that support it are either invalid or unsound arguments. Even if we assume that the premise is true, there is no causal link between the premise and conclusion. We cannot infer that "Islam is true" simply because "the Bible predicts the coming of Islam".
My Response:
Like I said above, and I will repaste it here for the reader's convenience: "Islam's Truth is absolutely not limited to the Bible. Let alone the three small points I raised from the Bible. Islam has ample miracles and Truthful claims that proved it to be the Truth from Allah Almighty. While the Bible for instance suggests and claims that the earth is a flat disc, the Noble Quran 1500 years ago claimed that the earth is egg-shaped. For more examples, please visit Science in Islam.
Now please don't get me wrong here. The Noble Quran is not a science book. It's not a book of mathematical equations. No, it's a Holy Book that contains instructions from Allah Almighty that guide us through life, and most importantly teaches us how to worship the One True Living GOD Almighty. Unlike the Bible, when Allah Almighty makes a what we call today a "scientific" claim, it was proven scientifically to be true. So, while the Bible was written and altered by men (mysterious authors as the NIV Bible theologians put it) who weren't men of GOD Almighty, the Noble Quran truly remains until today perfect in every way, and for sure proved itself beyond any doubt that it is from Allah Almighty.
If you read the Noble Quran, you will see that it doesn't talk much about Jesus and Christians. Islam does not revolve around the Bible and its claims. My open challenge here was only intended to show Christians that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was foretold in the their Book as Allah Almighty claimed in the Noble Quran. Nothing more and nothing less."
He Wrote:
I would like to conclude by saying that I respect your religious orientation and that it is not my intention to offend you in any way. When I say that an argument is invalid or unsound, I am not saying that the resulting conclusion is necessarily false. The possibility exists that Islam is true; however, it is fallacious to use the Bible to affirm this. Consider the following:
If the Bible is errant, then it should not be used as the basis for your arguments. If the Bible is inerrant, then Islam has to reconcile innumerable contradictions that exist between the Koran and the Bible, most notably the status, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Written by Leonard Lin
All Bible quotations are taken from the NKJV, unless otherwise stated.
My Response:
Mr. Leonard Lin only a weak and low person would get offended from the Truth. Nothing in your argument was offending. It was all intelligent and worth reading and responding to. I truly enjoy debating wonderful folks like you, because it does reveal the Truth and explain the misunderstandings. But unfortunately I don't always have the time to do it.
I would like to sincerely thank you for emailing me your rebuttal. It was definitely a good challenge for me. I hope that my responses were clear enough and detailed enough for you and for the reader. I pray to Allah Almighty to guide you and the reader to the Truth and Light of Islam. I just want you to know Leonard that Islam is very simple. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him ended Islam. He didn't start it. Islam started from the time of Adam peace be upon him and was passed down to all of the nations and Prophets until it reached Muhammad, peace be upon all of them. If you believe in the One True Living GOD Almighty, then you are a Muslim:
"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
Please visit: What is the Wisdom of Islam?
Also, please visit: "Allah" was GOD Almighty's original Name in the Bible according to the original Hebrew and Aramaic sources.
You also raise a good point about the validity and Truth of the Bible. Please visit: What parts of the Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth? and Why?
Take care, and GOD bless you!