My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "How can Jesus be God when the Hebrew Bible says God is not a man?" article:
This article is a rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's article that is located at: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_god_not_man.htm.
There is a lie and a twist in translation done in Exodus 15:3. See below.
He wrote:
A Series of Answers to Common Questions
Question:
How can Jesus be God when the Hebrew Bible says God is not a man? Cf. Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Hosea 11:9.
Answer:
None of those biblical texts say God CANNOT be a man, but say that God IS not a man, a major difference:
"God IS not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" Numbers 23:19
"And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he IS not a man, that he should have regret." 1 Samuel 15:29
"I will not execute my burning anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come in wrath." Hosea 11:9
My response:
GOD Almighty can put Himself or make Himself anything. The verses above don't have to say that He can not, because that would then be absurd! But the moment GOD Almighty chooses to become a man, He would immediately contradict His Declaration of not being a man at Numbers 23:19, 1 Samuel 15:29, Hosea 11:9 and Job 25:4-6:
1- "God IS not man, that he should lie, or
a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do
it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" Numbers
23:19
2- "And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret,
for he IS not a man, that he should have regret." 1 Samuel 15:29
3- "I will not execute my burning anger; I will not again destroy
Ephraim; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst,
and I will not come in wrath." Hosea 11:9
4- From brother Muxiiaydeen, may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
Job 25:4-6
4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he
be clean that is born of a woman?
5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
Man born from a woman and Son of man are nothing but despicable and worthless "worm" (Job 25:4-6 above)!
Yet, Jesus was born from a woman, was a man, and was also called "son of man":
Important Note: It is clear that GOD Almighty was, perhaps, preparing for the coming of Jesus, the Messiah. His Declaration of Himself (GOD Almighty) not being a man, not being a "son of man", and not being born from a woman seems to suggest that He is Declaring in advance that Jesus is not and can not be the Creator of the Universe to eliminate all confusion and blasphemy.
Jesus is not GOD, and GOD is not (a despicable "worm") man!
In the light of the above passages, GOD Almighty clearly Declared that He would never become a man!
From brother Abdullah Smith, may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
"For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." (Malachi 3:6)"
GOD Almighty does not change!
He therefore WOULD NOT become a man, because He Declared that He is not a man and would not become a man.
He wrote:
It is true that during the Old Testament period God hadn’t become a man, but this doesn’t deny that God could choose to later become a man, specifically in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Hebrew Bible itself supports the view that God can become a man, without ceasing to be God, since there are places where God appeared in human form:
"The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw THREE MEN standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. He said, ‘If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash YOUR FEET and rest under this tree. Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way-now that you have come to your servant.’ ‘Very well,’ they answered, ‘do as you say’… He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. WHILE THEY ATE, he stood near them under a tree. ‘Where is your wife Sarah?’ they asked him. ‘There, in the tent,’ he said. THEN THE LORD SAID, ‘I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son’… THEN THE LORD SAID TO ABRAHAM, ‘Why did Sarah laugh and say, "Will I really have a child, now that I am old?" Is anything too hard for the LORD? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son.’ Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, ‘I did not laugh.’ BUT HE SAID, ‘Yes, you did laugh.’ WHEN THE MEN GOT UP TO LEAVE, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. THEN THE LORD SAID, ‘Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?’ ... THEN THE LORD SAID, ‘The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.’ The men turned away and went toward Sodom, BUT ABRAHAM REMAINED STANDING BEFORE THE LORD. Then Abraham APPROACHED HIM and said: ‘Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing - to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?’ THE LORD SAID, ‘If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake’… WHEN THE LORD HAD FINISHED SPEAKING WITH ABRAHAM, HE LEFT, and Abraham returned home." Genesis 18:1-5, 8-10a, 13-17, 20-26, 33
"So Jacob was left alone, and A MAN wrestled with him till daybreak. When THE MAN saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with THE MAN. Then THE MAN said, ‘Let me go, for it is daybreak.’ But Jacob replied, ‘I will not let you go unless you bless me.’ THE MAN asked him, ‘What is your name?’ ‘Jacob,’ he answered. Then THE MAN said, ‘Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.’ Jacob said, ‘Please tell me your name.’ But he replied, ‘Why do you ask my name?’ Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, ‘It is because I SAW GOD FACE TO FACE, and yet my life was spared.’" Genesis 32:24-30
"And above the expanse over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with A HUMAN APPEARANCE. And upward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were gleaming metal, like the appearance of fire enclosed all around. And downward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and there was brightness around him. Like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness all around. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard the voice of one speaking… AND HE SAD TO ME, ‘Son of man, stand on your feet, and I will speak with you.’ And as he spoke to me, the Spirit entered into me and set me on my feet, and I heard him speaking to me. And he said to me, ‘Son of man, I send you to the people of Israel, to nations of rebels, who have rebelled against me. They and their fathers have transgressed against me to this very day. The descendants also are impudent and stubborn: I send you to them, and you shall say to them, "Thus says the Lord GOD." And whether they hear or refuse to hear (for they are a rebellious house) they will know that a prophet has been among them. 6And you, son of man, be not afraid of them, nor be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions. Be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, for they are a rebellious house. And you shall speak my words to them, whether they hear or refuse to hear, for they are a rebellious house. But you, son of man, hear what I say to you. Be not rebellious like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.’ And when I looked, behold, a hand was stretched out to me, and behold, a scroll of a book was in it. And he spread it before me. And it had writing on the front and on the back, and there were written on it words of lamentation and mourning and woe.’" Ezekiel 1:26-28, 2:1-10
My response:
Absolute lies and nonsense!
My response in this section will be divided into the following points:
Point #1:
(According to the Hebrew, it was an Angel speaking on behalf of GOD Almighty. He is Angel Gabriel according to Islam!)
If Sam Shamoun was indirectly trying to prove the trinity lie by presenting the number 3 in the three angels that appeared to Abraham, peace be upon him, as a sign for trinity, then this only goes to prove his lack of intellect and integrity.
The following links clearly debunk the polytheist trinitarian pagans' lies in regards to proving trinity using Genesis 18 & 19:
1- http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/Gen18_19.html
2- http://www.bibleanswerstand.org/QA_trinity.htm
3- http://www.heaven.net.nz/answers/answer33.htm
The author in the second link has put it best in the following paragraph in his detailed
and lengthy refutation: (green and red color emphasis are mine)
"This is the basic framework of the trinitarian argument. Based on this explanation, we can refute this
erroneous trinitarian teaching quite clearly and
readily. Here’s
the beginning refutation:
In Genesis
18:9 the scripture describes the three men that ask Abraham where his wife is by using the
plural pronoun, “they.”
Genesis 18:9 Then they said to him, "Where is Sarah your wife?” And he said, "Behold, in the tent."
In
Genesis 18:10 however, only ONE of the men speaks and promises Abraham “he” will return saying to Abraham, “I will surely return
to you at this time next year…”
Genesis 18:10 And he said, "I will surely return to you at this time next year; and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son." And Sarah was listening at the tent door, which was behind him. NAS
There is a clear distinction between, “they said,” in Genesis 18:9 and,
“he said,” in Genesis 18:10. In 18:9 only two of the men ask Abraham where
Sarah is, but in 18:10, only one of the men says, “I will return next
year.” This distinction means this is
not the trinity in focus, otherwise the pronouns would not shift back and forth from
singular to plural.
Below Genesis
18:13-14 are first mention of Yahweh and are a continuation of one man speaking apart from
the other two men.
Genesis 18:13-14 And the LORD (Yahweh) said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?' 14 Is anything too difficult for the LORD (Yahweh)? At the appointed time I will return to you, at this time next year, and Sarah shall have a son." NAS
This is
Yahweh speaking to Abraham, and it is the angel (singular) of Yahweh, whom Abraham
recognized because prior in earlier chapters of Genesis
the angel of Yahweh appeared to Abraham’s mistress and Sarah’s maidservant in
Genesis 16:7, 9, 10, & 11 promising her she would
bear children. Later this same singular angel
of Yahweh came to Abraham to deliver Yahweh’s messages to him in Genesis 22:11, 15
Genesis 22:11 But the angel of the LORD (Yahweh) called to him from heaven, and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." NAS
Genesis 22:15 Then the angel of the LORD (Yahweh) called to Abraham a second time from heaven. NAS
Further
proof this is not the trinity involved is found in verse Genesis 18:14 where Yahweh speaks
to Abraham thru the angel (singular) of Yahweh using the singular pronoun, “I,”
NOT the plural pronoun, “we.” Yahweh
is mentioned and uses only SINGULAR pronouns for the remainder of chapter 18
Genesis 18:16-17 Then the men rose up from there, and looked down toward Sodom; and Abraham was walking with them to send them off. 17 And the LORD (Yahweh) said, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?” NAS
Abraham escorts all three men on the way to Sodom; however only
two of the men actually go into Sodom; the other man (angel) speaks as
Yahweh, and he uses singular pronouns in Genesis 18: 17, “And the LORD (Yahweh)
said, "Shall I…”
The other two men that go down to Sodom are identified as, “angels,” whereas one man stays with Abraham, and speaks to him as, “Yahweh.” This is concrete proof that only ONE man (angel) is speaking as Yahweh, and the other two are merely angels sent to accompany the singular angel of Yahweh in their visit to and with Abraham and his wife Sarah.
The role of
the two angels changes when they go to Sodom to rescue Abraham’s nephew named Lot. They are being directed on a different mission as
agents acting directly on behalf of Yahweh to fulfil two purposes; first, to warn Lot and
rescue him and any of his family that pays heed to the warning, and secondly, to act on
behalf of and with the authority to use the power of Yahweh to destroy the cities of Sodom
and Gomorrah with brimstone and with fire.
Genesis 19:1-2 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 And he said, "Now behold, my lords (lords = PLURAL, not LORD singular), please turn aside into your servant's house, and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way." They said however, "No, but we shall spend the night in the square." NAS
These two
“angels” were the same men that had earlier been with Abraham and Sarah; the
third man stayed with Abraham. These two angels come in the form of men,
evidenced by the fact that Lot wanted to wash their feet.
Angels appearing in the form of men is not unheard of in scripture, because
angels appear as men in numerous places throughout both Old & New Testaments.
When Lot
greets these two angels, he addresses them by
using the PLURAL noun, and saying, “My lords.” Because Lots calls them by the plural, “my lords,” this proves
there is no such thing as the trinity in this context.
The Hebrew noun (adonay) that Lot uses to call these angelic visitors,
“lords,” is the common plural form of the Hebrew title of respect.
Adonay does
not mean divinity; it is a general Hebrew word to address someone of dignity, or someone
as, ‘master.’ For example, Sarah
called Abraham, “my lord,” in Genesis 18:12 using the same form of Hebrew word,
“adon.” Do you suppose trinitarian
dogma would identify Abraham as one member of the trinity, simply because his wife Sarah
called him, “lord?” Of course not,
but this shows the total absurdity of this false teaching.
Furthermore,
the fact that Lot addresses these two angelic messengers (sent in the form of men) as,
“my lords,” (plural), is absolute proof there is no mention of the trinity, because
the third person was not present with them, which by trinitarian standards reduces
their co-equality and their co-omnipresence to nothing.
Also, note
in Genesis 19:2 the two angels speak to answer Lot and they said, "No, but we shall
spend the night in the square." Because
“they” use a plural pronoun, “we” while speaking collectively, this is
irrefutable evidence that only two angels exist in Sodom, while the third angel who had
earlier spoken to Abraham for and on behalf of Jehovah (or Yahweh) is not with them.
The reason I
mention this is simply to point out that the three men or angels did not stay together,
which violates the fundamental doctrine of co-omnipresence taught by trinitarian doctrine. Furthermore, since one speaks as Yahweh, and they
other two remain silent as he speaks, this nullifies the trinitarian principle of
co-equality amongst the three persons of the triune Godhead.
The way this
can be proven is by looking at the Genesis 19:29, “Thus it came about, when God
(Elohim) destroyed the cities of the valley, that God (Elohim) remembered Abraham, and
sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot
lived.” Trinitarianism teaches that the
Hebrew word, “Elohim,” means, “a united one,” and is used to represent
the three persons of the trinity eternally united and inseparable. Oops. Now
two of the angels split off and went to Sodom at the command of the angel of Yahweh that
stayed behind with Abraham, thereby nullifying the “united” three persons of the
trinity.
The third
angel, known throughout the OT as “the” angel of Yahweh is mentioned separately
and distinct from these two angels. The third
angel stayed behind to talk with Abraham; he IS referred to throughout the last half of
Genesis chapter 18 as, “Yahweh.” This point will be mentioned again when I
answer your question concerning the use of Yahweh in Genesis 19:24. The other two angels were
sent to rescue Lot and his family from the impending destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
So far I
have proven by simple breakdown of plural and singular nouns and pronouns that there is no
such thing as the trinity with its err of three co-equal, co-omnipresent persons of
“God” in the context of Genesis chapters 18-19.
The three men that came to visit Abraham and his wife Sarah were two angels in the
form of men, and a third angel in the form of man, but with considerably greater
authority, who speaks for and on behalf of Yahweh, and is recognized as one and the same
as the, “angel of Yahweh,” throughout the OT.
This means
that during the initial meeting with Abraham and Sarah the other two men are angels sent
to accompany the angel of Yahweh to speak to Abraham.
Perhaps this is so they can act as witnesses to the promise of Yahweh to
Sarah, that she would become pregnant and bear a son within the next year. Following the meeting with Abraham, one angel
stays with him, while the other two angels are then sent separately into Sodom to rescue
Abraham’s nephew Lot and his family before the city was to be destroyed by Yahweh
THROUGH them (i.e. – thru these two angel Yahweh destroys Sodom and Gomorrah).
He then goes on to refute Genesis 19:24, which
some hopeless trinitarians misuse to prove their trinity lie.
"I
don’t know where they find any reason to identify more than one person of Yahweh in
Genesis 19:24; neither the English nor Hebrew text supports their argument, and there is no distinction by virtue of plural nouns or pronouns in
verse 24 to support such an interpretation. So
the best way to decipher any argument is to begin with context.
..............
Read the context of Genesis
19:12-29 below, and then pay close attention to the following:
Plural or
singular nouns (e.g. – “men” versus “man” or “angel”
versus “angels” OR “angels” versus “the LORD”) and pronouns
(e.g. – “I, he, him” versus “we, us, they, them”)
Ask
yourself, who is speaking & to whom OR who is acting on behalf of whom?
Genesis 19:12-29 Then the men said to Lot, "Whom else have you here? A son-in-law, and your sons, and your daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place; 13 for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before the LORD (Yahweh) that the LORD (Yahweh) has sent us to destroy it. " 14 And Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, "Up, get out of this place, for the LORD (Yahweh) will destroy the city." But he appeared to his sons-in-law to be jesting. 15 And when morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Up, take your wife and your two daughters, who are here, lest you be swept away in the punishment of the city." 16 But he hesitated. So the men seized his hand and the hand of his wife and the hands of his two daughters, for the compassion of the LORD (Yahweh) was upon him; and they brought him out, and put him outside the city. 17 And it came about when they had brought them outside, that one said, "Escape for your life! Do not look behind you, and do not stay anywhere in the valley; escape to the mountains, lest you be swept away." 18 But Lot said to them, "Oh no, my lords! 19 "Now behold, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have magnified your lovingkindness, which you have shown me by saving my life; but I cannot escape to the mountains, lest the disaster overtake me and I die; 20 now behold, this town is near enough to flee to, and it is small. Please, let me escape there (is it not small?) that my life may be saved. " 21 And he said to him, "Behold, I grant you this request also, not to overthrow the town of which you have spoken. 22 Hurry, escape there, for I cannot do anything until you arrive there." Therefore the name of the town was called Zoar. 23 The sun had risen over the earth when Lot came to Zoar. 24 Then the LORD (Yahweh) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD (Yahweh) out of heaven, 25 and He overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. 26 But his wife, from behind him, looked back; and she became a pillar of salt. 27 Now Abraham arose early in the morning and went to the place where he had stood before the LORD (Yahweh); 28 and he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the valley, and he saw, and behold, the smoke of the land ascended like the smoke of a furnace. 29 Thus it came about, when God (Elohim) destroyed the cities of the valley, that God (Elohim) remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot lived. NAS
I think
you’ll find the answers to your questions self-explanatory if you carefully segment
all the words highlighted in red. Here’s
some simple refutations that easily and logically dispel the trinity myth:
Refutation #1: In verses
12 & 13 the men said to Lot… we are about to destroy this
place, because the LORD (Yahweh) has sent us to destroy it. " Recall now that
the third angel who stayed behind with Abraham was the angel of Yahweh. He is the spokesman for Yahweh to whom these two angels refer when they spoke to Lot saying to him,
“the LORD (Yahweh) has sent us to destroy it. " This is answer enough to eliminate every
trinitarian argument in the entire chapter of Genesis 19!
What
proves these two angels who came in the form of men are Yahweh’s representatives is
how they act on behalf of Yahweh’s command when granting Lot’s request. In verse 16 Lot has
second thoughts and he hesitates, so to save him the men (i.e. - the two angels) seize
Lot’s hand and the hand of his wife and the hands of his two daughters.
As the
angels take his family by the hand, and lead them outside of the city, this act of
deliverance is described in the last half of verse 16 saying, “… for the
compassion of the LORD (Yahweh) was upon him (Lot); and they brought him out, and put him
outside the city.”
Here we see
that “Yahweh’s compassion” is demonstrated thru the actions of these two
angels disguised as men; keep in mind however, that these two
angels are “sent by Yahweh,” so therefore the
reference to the “compassion of Yahweh,” is redirected to the third angel that
stayed with Abraham, because he is the auditory spokesman for Yahweh (i.e. – he
speaks directly for Yahweh).
This shows
how scripture sometimes uses the actions of others to describe the compassion of Yahweh,
but it certainly does not prove there are more than one person of God in a triune Godhead,
as purported by trinitarian dogma.
Refutation #2: In verse 17 it reads, “And it came about when they (the 2 angels) had brought them (Lot’s family) outside (of Sodom), that one said, (meaning one of the angels) "Escape for your life! Do not look behind you, and do not stay anywhere in the valley; escape to the mountains, lest you be swept away." Since they are now outside of the city, the “one” speaking is the angel of Yahweh, who is the third angel that had remained outside of the cities, as he stayed behind with Abraham.
Even though
only one of the angels speaks to Lot, in a typical display of Middle Eastern cultural
respect, Lot responds to the one speaking by addressing ALL three of the angels in verse 18
by calling to them, "Oh no, my lords!”
Safe
temporarily outside of Sodom and now in the presence of all three angels, Lot goes on to
plead with them in verses 19 & 20, to let him retreat to a smaller city nearby
saying, “"Now behold, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have
magnified your lovingkindness, which you have shown me by saving my life…”
This leads
to my point in verse 21, which reads, “And he (he meaning Yahweh) said
to him (Lot), "Behold, I (Yahweh) grant you this request…” Recall earlier that only ONE angel spoke. The context does
not say which of the three angels is speaking for and on behalf of Yahweh, but the fact is, only one speaks, and earlier this was the angel of
Yahweh, so the logical conclusion is that it is the original angel of Yahweh speaking
again.
Because only
one angel speaks, and the other two angels said they had been “sent by Yahweh”
to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, the principle of co-equality in the triune
Godhead is ruined by this fact, because only one of the two angels speaks, and the fact remains the other two personages are subservient to him,
not co-equal.
Therefore,
any alluding to “Yahweh” twice in verse 24 is simply the two angels alternately
working on behalf and directly for Yahweh, who sent them with power to destroy the cities
with brimstone and fire. So simple even a
child could figure it out.
One last
note about verses 13-14 when Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law. In verse 13 the two angels told Lot, “…
for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before
the LORD (Yahweh) that the LORD (Yahweh) has sent us to destroy it. " In verse 14 Lot went out and spoke to his
sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, "Up, get out of this place,
for the LORD (Yahweh) will destroy the city." As far as Lot knew, there were only two angels involved, since he had
not met the third one as the angel of Yahweh yet.
The fact
then that Lot refers to these two angels of destruction and deliverance collectively as,
“Yahweh,” blows the ‘three-in-one’ trinity argument out of the water! If the trinitarian dogma says this is proof for
more than one person of Yahweh in the context, then the blessed three has been reduced to
a mere two, and instead of a trinity, we now have a twinity!
Point #2:
(CLEAR CUT Proofs from other verses that it was an Angel and not GOD Almighty Himself!)
The claim of the polytheist trinitarian pagans regarding GOD Almighty appearing in a form of a man is quite absurd, false, and again is in clear contradiction with Numbers 23:19, 1 Samuel 15:29, Hosea 11:9, Job 25:4-6 and Malachi 3:6 above.
Again, Malachi 3:6 clearly says: "For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." GOD Almighty does not change, and He therefore, would not become a man because He Declared that He is not a man.
Here are verses from the Bible that will clearly debunk Sam Shamoun's absurdity:
No one has seen GOD Almighty!
Exodus 3
4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him
from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"
And Moses said, "Here I am."
5 "Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your
sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground."
6 Then he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac
and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at
God.
Judges 13
21 When the angel of the LORD did not
show himself again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the
LORD .
22 "We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We
have seen God!"
23 But his wife answered, "If the LORD had meant to kill us, he would not have
accepted a burnt offering and grain offering from our hands, nor shown us all these things
or now told us this."
Here they thought that they saw the face of GOD Almighty
when they only saw His Angel. Notice how they were scared that they were going to be
doomed.
1 John 4
11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love
one another.
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and
his love is made complete in us.
13 We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
But did Moses know GOD Almighty face to face and did GOD bury him when he died?
Deuteronomy 34
5 And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said.
6 He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to
this day no one knows where his grave is.
7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor
his strength gone.
8 The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days, until the time of
weeping and mourning was over.
9 Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his
hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the LORD had commanded Moses.
10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew
face to face,
11 who did all those miraculous signs and wonders the LORD sent him to do in Egypt—to
Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land.
12 For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses
did in the sight of all Israel.
As we clearly saw above, Moses never knew GOD Almighty face to face on the literal sense.
No one has ever seen GOD Almighty or the Face of GOD Almighty.
So now here is the challenge to Sam Shamoun:
1- Who buried Moses, peace be upon him? Certainly, the Roman Catholics in the section below think Gabriel did.
2- Using your absurd logic above about taking things literally, explain to us the contradiction between Deuteronomy 34:10 and Exodus 3:4-6, Judges 13:21-23, and 1 John 4:11-13 above. Did Moses see GOD Almighty or not?
3- Also, why should we take your point literally when Judges 13:21-23 clearly refutes it? People back then thought they saw GOD Almighty, when in reality they only saw an Angel, most probably the Angel Gabriel, peace be upon him. Anyway, the Bible is a rewrite. It's not original. Anything and everything in it is quite doubtful according to its own theologians and historians.
Point #3:
(The Roman Catholics believe that the Angel was indeed Angel Gabriel, who is also well Praised in the Noble Quran!)
In the following treatise from the Roman Catholic theologians, we see the following:
1- Angel Gabriel is the King of Angels.
2- His Name means "The Power of GOD".
3- He was the one who buried Moses, peace be upon him.
4- He was the one who wrestled with Jacob.
From http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06330a.htm: (the color and underline emphasis below are mine)
"Fortitudo Dei", one of the three archangels mentioned in the Bible. Only four appearances of Gabriel are recorded:
Thus he is throughout the angel of the Incarnation and of Consolation, and so in Christian tradition Gabriel is ever the angel of mercy while Michael is rather the angel of judgment. At the same time, even in the Bible, Gabriel is, in accordance with his name, the angel of the Power of God, and it is worth while noting the frequency with which such words as "great", "might", "power", and "strength" occur in the passages referred to above. The Jews indeed seem to have dwelt particularly upon this feature in Gabriel's character, and he is regarded by them as the angel of judgment, while Michael is called the angel of mercy. Thus they attribute to Gabriel the destruction of Sodom and of the host of Sennacherib, though they also regard him as the angel who buried Moses, and as the man deputed to mark the figure Tau on the foreheads of the elect (Ezech., 4). In later Jewish literature the names of angels were considered to have a peculiar efficacy, and the British Museum possesses some magic bowls inscribed with Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac incantations in which the names of Michael, Raphael, and Gabriel occur. These bowls were found at Hillah, the site of Babylon, and constitute an interesting relic of the Jewish captivity. In apocryphal Christian literature the same names occur, cf. Enoch, ix, and the Apocalypse of the Blessed Virgin.
As remarked above, Gabriel is mentioned only twice in the New Testament, but it is not unreasonable to suppose with Christian tradition that it is he who appeared to St. Joseph and to the shepherds, and also that it was he who "strengthened" Our Lord in the garden (cf. the Hymn for Lauds on 24 March). Gabriel is generally termed only an archangel, but the expression used by St. Raphael, "I am the angel Raphael, one of the seven, who stand before the Lord" (Tob., xii, 15) and St. Gabriel's own words, "I am Gabriel, who stand before God" (Luke 1, 19), have led some to think that these angels must belong to the highest rank; but this is generally explained as referring to their rank as the highest of God's messengers, and not as placing them among the Seraphim and Cherubim (cf. St. Thomas, I, Q. cxii, a.3; III, Q. xxx, a.2, ad 4um).
In addition to the literature under ANGEL and in the biblical dictionaries, see PUSEY, The Prophet Daniel (London, 1868); EDERSHEIM, Jesus the Messiah (London and New York, 1890), Append. XIII; H. CROSBY, Michael and Gabriel in Homiletic Review (1890), XIX, 160-162; BARDENHEWER, Mariä-Verkündigung in Bibl. Studien, X, 496 sqq.
From http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm:
.............
God's messengers to mankind
But these glimpses of life beyond the veil are only occasional. The angels of the Bible generally appear in the role of God's messengers to mankind. They are His instruments by whom He communicates His will to men, and in Jacob's vision they are depicted as ascending and descending the ladder which stretches from earth to heaven while the Eternal Father gazes upon the wanderer below. It was an angel who found Agar (Hagar) in the wilderness (Gen., xvi); angels drew Lot out of Sodom; an angel announces to Gideon that he is to save his people; an angel foretells the birth of Samson (Judges, xiii), and the angel Gabriel instructs Daniel (Dan., viii, 16), though he is not called an angel in either of these passages, but "the man Gabriel" (9:21). The same heavenly spirit announced the birth of St. John the Baptist and the Incarnation of the Redeemer, while tradition ascribes to him both the message to the shepherds (Luke, ii, 9), and the most glorious mission of all, that of strengthening the King of Angels in His Agony (Luke 22:43). The spiritual nature of the angels is manifested very clearly in the account which Zacharias gives of the revelations bestowed upon him by the ministry of an angel. The prophet depicts the angel as speaking "in him". He seems to imply that he was conscious of an interior voice which was not that of God but of His messenger. The Massoretic text, the Septuagint, and the Vulgate all agree in thus describing the communications made by the angel to the prophet. It is a pity that the "Revised Version" should, in apparent defiance of the above-named texts, obscure this trait by persistently giving the rendering: "the angel that talked with me: instead of "within me" (cf. Zach., i, 9, 13, 14; ii, 3; iv, 5; v, 10).
Such appearances of angels generally last only so long as the delivery of their message requires, but frequently their mission is prolonged, and they are represented as the constituted guardians of the nations at some particular crisis, e.g. during the Exodus (Exod., xiv, 19; Baruch, vi, 6). Similarly it is the common view of the Fathers that by "the prince of the Kingdom of the Persians" (Dan., x, 13; x, 21) we are to understand the angel to whom was entrusted the spiritual care of that kingdom, and we may perhaps see in the "man of Macedonia" who appeared to St. Paul at Troas, the guardian angel of that country (Acts. xvi, 9). The Septuagint (Deut., xxxii, 8), has preserved for us a fragment of information on this head, though it is difficult to gauge its exact meaning: "When the Most High divided the nations, when He scattered the children of Adam, He established the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God". How large a part the ministry of angels played, not merely in Hebrew theology, but in the religious ideas of other nations as well, appears from the expression "like to an angel of God". It is three times used of David (II K., xiv, 17, 20; xiv, 27) and once by Achis of Geth (I K., xxlx, 9). It is even applied by Esther to Assuerus (Esther, xv, 16), and St. Stephen's face is said to have looked "like the face of an angel" as he stood before the Sanhedrin (Acts, vi, 15).
From http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/160372.htm:
3. Ye that are well instructed in the school of Christ, know that this Jacob is Israel too. They are two names; for they are one man. His first name Jacob, which is by interpretation supplanter, he received when he was born. For when those twins were born, his brother Esau was born first; and the hand of the younger was found on the elder's foot. He held his brother's foot who preceded him in his birth, and himself came after And because of this occurrence, because he held his brother's heel, he was called Jacob, that is, Supplanter. And afterwards, when he was returning from Mesopotamia, the Angel wrestled with him in the way. What comparison can there. be between an Angel's and a man's strength? Therefore it is a mystery, a sacrament, a prophecy, a figure; let us therefore understand it. For consider the manner of the struggle too. While he wrestleth, Jacob prevailed against the Angel.....
Note: They then go into the nonsense of claiming that this incident introduced Jesus. A claim that is not supported anywhere in the Unitarian Beliefs, because Jesus is a Creation of GOD Almighty and His Messenger. He is not an Angel.
From http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801147.htm:
Let us go back to the origin of our fall, and see that most truly is it sung in the Psalm, "Before I was troubled I went wrong." But he who says, "Before I was troubled I went wrong," saith also, "It is good for me that Thou hast humbled me, that I may learn Thy Righteousnesses." These righteousnesses Jacob learnt from God, who made him to wrestle with an Angel; under the guise of which Angel, God Himself wrestled with him He held Him, he exerted violence to hold Him he prevailed to hold Him: He caused Himself to be held, in mercy, not in weakness. Jacob therefore wrestled, and prevailed: he held Him and when he seemed to have conquered Him asked to be blessed of Him? How did he understand with Whom he had wrestled, Whom he had held? Wherefore did he wrestle violently, and hold Him? Because "the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." Wherefore then did he wrestle? Because it is with toil. Wherefore do we with difficulty hold, what we so easily lose? Lest, easily getting back what we have lost, we learn to lose that which we hold. Let man have toil to hold: he will hold firmly, what he has only held after toil. These His judgments therefore God manifested to Jacob and Israel . . . .
Point #4:
(See the figurative speech in the Bible proving that we must not take everything literally!)
From http://www.answering-christianity.com/bible_quran_differences.htm: (See section #2)
GOD Almighty's figurative Temptation:
Luke 11
2 He said to them, "When you pray, say: " 'Father,
hallowed be your name, your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And
lead us not into temptation.' "
5 Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at
midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread,
YET, GOD ALMIGHTY DOESN'T TEMPT:
James 1
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting
me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full
-grown, gives birth to death.
Luke 11:2-5 and James 1:13-15 above, clearly prove that GOD Almighty does allow satan to tempt, not only us but also His Prophets.
GOD Almighty's Hand:
1 Samuel 5
9 But after they had moved it, the LORD's hand was
against that city, throwing it into a great panic. He afflicted the people of
the city, both young and old, with an outbreak of tumors.
10 So they sent the ark of God to Ekron. As the ark of God was entering Ekron, the people
of Ekron cried out, "They have brought the ark of the god of Israel around to us to
kill us and our people."
11 So they called together all the rulers of the Philistines and said, "Send the ark
of the god of Israel away; let it go back to its own place, or it will kill us and our
people." For death had filled the city with panic; God's hand was very heavy upon it.
The verses obviously are not talking about GOD Almighty's physical Arm, Hand and Fingers.
They figuratively saw GOD Almighty:
"Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank. (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 24:9-11)"
"Jacob said, "Please tell me your name." But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared." The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping because of his hip. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 32:29-31)"
"But Esau said, "I already have plenty, my brother. Keep what you have for yourself." "No, please!" said Jacob. "If I have found favor in your eyes, accept this gift from me. For to see your face is like seeing the face of God, now that you have received me favorably. Please accept the present that was brought to you, for God has been gracious to me and I have all I need." And because Jacob insisted, Esau accepted it. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 33:9-11)"
GOD Almighty figuratively hid His Face from them:
Deuteronomy 31
16 And the LORD said to Moses: "You are going to rest with your
fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land
they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them.
17 On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my
face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and difficulties
will come upon them, and on that day they will ask, 'Have not these disasters come upon us
because our God is not with us?'
18 And I will certainly hide my face on that day because of all their wickedness in
turning to other gods.
Psalm 27
8 My heart says of you, "Seek his face!" Your
face, LORD , I will seek.
9 Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away in
anger; you have been my helper. Do not reject me or forsake me, O God my Savior.
10 Though my father and mother forsake me, the LORD will receive me.
Psalm 80
2 before Ephraim, Benjamin and Manasseh. Awaken your might;
come and save us.
3 Restore us, O God; make your face shine upon us, that we may be
saved.
4 O LORD God Almighty, how long will your anger smolder against the prayers of your
people?
Isaiah 59
1 Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor
his ear too dull to hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden
his face from you, so that he will not hear.
3 For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt. Your lips have spoken
lies, and your tongue mutters wicked things.
But in reality and actuality, no one has seen GOD Almighty, because
they would then die:
Exodus 3
4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him
from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"
And Moses said, "Here I am."
5 "Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your
sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground."
6 Then he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac
and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at
God.
Judges 13
21 When the angel of the LORD did not show himself again to
Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the LORD .
22 "We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have
seen God!"
23 But his wife answered, "If the LORD had meant to kill us, he would not have
accepted a burnt offering and grain offering from our hands, nor shown us all these things
or now told us this."
1 John 4
11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love
one another.
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and
his love is made complete in us.
13 We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
Jehovah or Yahweh Almighty was the One and Only LORD! The
"God" title was distorted in the Bible. Even satan was called
"God":
2 Corinthians 4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are
perishing.
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so
that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of
God.
The word "hotheos" in 2 Corinthians 4:2 which means "God" or "god" was the same exact word used in John 1:1. For more details and proofs please visit: The "God" title was given to people before and after Jesus in the Bible.
Only Yahweh (Jehovah in English) is not figurative. Exactly like no one has ever seen GOD Almighty's Face exactly like Moses is also not figurative.
Can anyone really move a mountain with his eyes?
" Jesus replied, 'I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.' (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 21:21)"
Can anyone really survive a poisonous snake's venom without treatment?
"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well. (From the NIV Bible, Mark 16:17-18)"
He wrote:
The Hebrew Bible even predicts that the Messiah of David is actually God in the flesh:
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this." Isaiah 9:6-7
Here, the Messiah is a child who is born, showing that he is truly human, while also being the Mighty God at the same time.
"Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘Yahweh is our righteousness.’" Jeremiah 23:5-6
The Messiah is David’s Branch, implying that he is a human descendant of David, while also being Yahweh our righteousness. These texts clearly indicate that God will become man in the Person of the Messiah, whom the NT says is the Lord Jesus!
My response:
Again, absolute nonsense!
It is important for the reader to know that "the LORD" or "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" is GOD Almighty's Unique title in the Bible! No one was ever given this title along with Him.
Many GODLY names were given to people in the Bible to symbolize their importance in society and their obedience and love to GOD Almighty. Also, the "El" (God) title was given to all of the Believers in the Bible! So Jesus being called "El" does not make him Yahweh! Also, Jerusalem was called "The LORD our Righteousness". So this title being given to the Messiah is, again, no proof.
I have written a detailed rebuttal to Shamoun's nonsense regarding this topic and demonstrated and showed that these names that were given to Jesus were absolutely not unique!
From www.answering-christianity.com/godtitle.htm:
Note: Notice in point #8 below, everyone was called "El". Also in point
#1, Jerusalem was called "The
LORD is our Righteousness".
................
Many people in the Jewish old culture were called "God" before Jesus' existence on earth. The following translations were verified by http://bible.crosswalk.com and the Jewish Sabbath Temple:
Note: Some of the words have different translations in the http://bible.crosswalk.com site than in the Jewish Sabbath Temple translation. I trust the Jewish Sabbath Temple translation, because they speak far better and more accurate Hebrew than the Bible Crosswalk site who are Christians and are desperate to prove the trinity dogma even if it means giving inaccurate and wrong/false translations:
Important Note: The "Yahweh" in many Hebrew names is shortened
because it apparently makes the name much easier to pronounce since it is used often.
It is very similar to our shortened names today such as:
1- Michael shortened for Mike.
2- Samuel shortened for Sam.
1- Jerusalem was called "The LORD our
Righteousness". "In those days Judah
will be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the name by which it
will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness (Yahweh tsidkenû).' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 33:16)"
2- Ezekiel means "Strong God". It also means "Yahweh is Strong
God".
3- Elijah. This name is short for EliJehovah or
"Eli Yahweh". Eli means my GOD, and Yahweh is the name and
title of GOD Almighty in the Bible. Does "Eli Yahweh" or Elijah mean that
the person is Jehovah Himself?
4- Israel means "Challenge God", "he struggles with God", or
"fight with God". It also means "Defeat God".
5- Gabriel also means "Strong God".
6- Isaiah or Jesaiah, which is short for "Jesa Yahweh" means
"Salvation from Yahweh". It could also mean "Salvation".
7- Joshua, which is short for "Josh Yahweh" means
"Yahweh Saves".
8- Elli, which is a common name for men before and after Jesus, means "God". Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' " "gods" here in Hebrew is "Elohim", which is plural of "EL". It is the same exact thing as "EL" used for Jesus in Isaiah 9:6, since "gods" is a combination of several "EL"s. And as clearly shown here, for someone to be called "god" or "God" in the Bible it wouldn't make him GOD Almighty Himself, the LORD or Jehovah. I also want to point out that ANY "Son of GOD" in the Bible is a "god" or "God" as clearly shown in Psalm 82:6.
Note: The trinitarian liars who translate the Bible into English play dirty tricks about capitalizing and lowering the "g" in "God" to prove their trinity lie, while they fully know that it is the same word used for ALL!
9- Immanuel, Emanuel, Emmanuel, Immanuel, or Imanuel are the SAME NAME
and are another name for Jesus, means "With us is God". This name is also
common for men before and after Jesus.
10- Elihu means "My God is He".
11- Gedaliah means "Jehovah is Great". Again, Gedaliah is short for "Gedal Yahweh". Is the person who was called "Jehovah is Great" GOD Almighty Himself? People before and after Jesus are given this name. See 2 Kings 25:22-24.
12- Eliadah or Eliada means "God knows".
13- Eliab means "my God is Father".
14- Elzaphan means "God is Protector"
15- Eliakim means "God raises".
16- Elisha means "God is Salvation".
17- Eleazar means "God has helped"
18- Judah or Yahawdah means "Praised". It generally means "Praised by Yahweh".
19- Hashabiah means "Jehovah has considered".
20- Mattithiah means "Gift of Jehovah".
21- Michael (nick name "Mike") means "who is like God". Yet, non is like Him, the Almighty. See Exodus 8:10.
22- Jesus, Yahshua, Yeshua or Yashua are the SAME NAME, and
mean "Salvation". It doesn't mean "God Saves" as Christians
claim. Jesus (Yeshua) means in Hebrew "salvation" and not "God
saves". Yud Shin Waw Ain - this name doesn't include the word "God".
Joshua (Yehoshya) - Yod Hey - Waw Shin Ain
Isaya (Yeshayah) - Yod Shin Ain - Yod Hey .
These two names are combination of Yod, Shin, Ain - salvation and Yod, Hey - Yahwe.
Yosh Hey (Yah) is common short from Yahwe, for example Alleluia comes from "Halelu
Yah" - "Glorify Yahwe".
For more details and proofs, please visit the article.
See also in the article how "ho theos" was given to both Jesus and satan (as the god of this world) in the NT.
Nothing that was given to Jesus in the Bible was unique!
Even his Miracles were not unique! They did all happen in the OT.
Please visit: None of Jesus' Miracles were unique!
He wrote:
Furthermore, Moses also calls God "a man of war" (ish milhamah):
"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3 KJV
My response:
First of all, here is now Exodus 15:3 read:
Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a warrior; yes, the LORD is his name!
The Arabic translation also says that GOD is a Fighter:
This can be verified in this link.
So for the polytheist trinitarian pagans of the English translation to say that GOD
Almighty is a "man" of war is
obviously a deliberate lie!
He wrote:
Other places where God is called a man of war include:
"The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war (ish milhamah): he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies." Isaiah 42:13 KJV
The foregoing demonstrates that in some ways God and man are alike, i.e. both God and man have a warrior spirit. Yet in other respects God is completely unlike man, namely that God is perfectly holy and consistent whereas man is not.
Thus, passages such as Numbers 23:19 do not rule out the possibility of God appearing as a man and/or becoming a man. It simply states that God's essence is distinct from man, without denying the fact that God could/would eventually take on a human nature. In reality, these texts simply illustrate that God is not a man by nature and doesn’t therefore lie or change his mind like men normally do.
My response:
Again, absolute nonsense!
The Bible declares that GOD Almighty is not a man! Man is a sinner and is, in many ways, evil! While GOD Almighty can certainly bring Himself in any form He Wishes, but He certainly Declared that He would never become a man:
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie. He is not a human, that he should change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?
1 Samuel 15:29 And he who is the Glory of Israel will not lie, nor will he change his mind, for he is not human that he should change his mind!"
Hosea 11:9 No, I will not punish you as much as my burning anger tells me to. I will not completely destroy Israel, for I am God and not a mere mortal. I am the Holy One living among you, and I will not come to destroy.
Job 25:4-6
4 How then can man be justified with God? or how
can he be clean that is born of a woman?
5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
GOD Almighty clearly declared that He would never become a man!
And GOD Almighty Declared that He would not Change! (Malachi 3:6)
He wrote:
What this basically means is that if God chose to become a man then he wouldn’t be like other men … he would be completely pure and holy.
My response:
Absolute nonsense!
GOD Almighty clearly declared that He wouldn't become a man; that would be a degradation to Him. All Praise due to Him.
He wrote:
And since God did become man in Christ we find that this is exactly the kind of person Jesus was, namely absolutely pure and sinless:
"What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God." Mark 1:24
"Simon Peter answered him, ‘Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.’" John 6:68-69
"The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory, but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood." John 7:18
"And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him… Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?" John 8:29, 46
"I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me," John 14:30
"But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses." Acts 3:14-15
"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Corinthians 5:21
"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15
"For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens." Hebrews 7:26
"how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God." Hebrews 9:14
"knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot." 1 Peter 1:18-19
"He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth." 1 Peter 2:22
"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit," 1 Peter 3:18
"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." 1 John 2:1
"And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure… You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin." 1 John 3:3, 5
To conclude, Christians believe that God wasn't always a man, but later became man at the Incarnation. The eternal Word of God took on a real human nature, while still remaining fully God in essence.
My response:
Another absolute nonsense!
Here is what Jesus, your god who escaped to Egypt for his life from King Herod (what kind of a god is that??!!), said about his GOD Almighty:
1- Jesus said only GOD Almighty is "good".
2- Jesus had the Spirit of "fearing GOD" in him!
3- Jesus according to the Early Christians of years 100 and 200 never got crucified!
Point #1:
(Jesus said only GOD Almighty is "good")
From http://www.answering-christianity.com/q_only_god_good_rebuttal.htm:
The Bible's New Testament also records Jesus saying: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"
If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?
I have yet to see a good answer to this one by any polytheist trinitarian.
Also, another important point to notice in Mark 10:18 is the word "alone": ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"
Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said "alone". If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that.
"Show me in the Bible where Jesus said he was not GOD!"
I sometimes get asked by trinitarians to show them where Jesus said that he WAS NOT GOD Almighty in the Bible. Ironically, it is like having this scenario:
Q. Show me where John Doe said that he was not the President of the United States! Show me the quote now!!
A. He just said he works as a computer programmer you brainless idiot! :-)
Jesus said he was not good. He can't possibly say I am your Creator and by the way I
am not good. The question itself shows the complete ignorance about what's written
in the bible and reveals the total blasphemy and darkness that polytheist trinitarian
pagans are living in.
Jesus is not GOD! The GOD Almighty of the Old Testament BOASTS about Himself! He countlessly reminds the Jews about Worshiping Him and only Him because He is the "One who took them out of Egypt", and He's the "One who Saved them from Pharaoh", etc... Not only that, but He also Punishes to death anyone who profanes His Holy and Blessed Name.
Jesus can not be this Holy and Mighty and Arrogant and Absolute GOD Almighty when he, for instance, escaped to Egypt for his life from King Herod! The GOD Almighty's Divine Characteristics in the Old Testament can not in anyway fit Jesus who is not "good" and who runs for his life from a creation of GOD Almighty.
For more information, please visit: Jesus had no Divine Will according to the New Testament. How could he be our Creator?
I have ample detailed refutations to the lie of trinity on my site. You can further see them to clearly understand that GOD Almighty is an Absolute One and only One and not a unity or trinity as satan claims.
Also visit:
The early Christians rejected Trinity. Early Christians had major problems and disagreements about who truly Jesus was and whether or not he got crucified or not.
Early Christians' Doctrines confirm Jesus DID NOT GET crucified. See proofs that the early Christians' scriptures during the 1st and 2nd centuries claimed that GOD Almighty Saved Jesus from crucifixion.
The "God" title in the Bible was given to others in the Old and New Testaments. Answering Isaiah 9:6. The "El" (God) title that was given to Jesus in the Old Testament, and the "HOTHEOS" (God) title in the New Testament, were given to others before and after Jesus in the Bible. The only UNIQUE title that exists in the Bible is "Yahweh", which means "The Eternal".
Emanuel,
Emmanuel, Yahshua, Yeshua, Yashua, Immanuel and Imanuel. These were all
"Godly" names given to others before and after Jesus in the Bible. None of
them is unique. Only "Yahweh" was GOD Almighty's Unique Name.
Point #2:
(Jesus had the Spirit of "fearing GOD" in him)
From http://www.answering-christianity.com/q_only_god_good_rebuttal.htm:
It's funny how the polytheist trinitarian pagans constantly try to twist and deceive to prove satan's biggest lie in history, trinity. Jesus was not "sinlessness". Jesus also was defeated by a woman's wisdom and changed his racist views about non-Jews being the "Jews' dogs" (see point #7 in the article). While Mark 10:18 does not mean that Jesus is admitting to be evil (by saying he is not good), but it definitely sets the record straight about him not being GOD Almighty.
As I mentioned in my other article about the Holy Spirit in Islam is a Creation of GOD Almighty, Jesus is not only "not good", but he also has the "Spirit of Fearing GOD Almighty" in him:
Isaiah 11:1-3
1. A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a
Branch will bear fruit.
2. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of
wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge
and of the fear of the LORD (Jesus
fearing his GOD)--
3. and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his
eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears;
As we see in Isaiah 11:1-3, there is:
1- Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding.
2- Spirit of Counsel and of power.
3- Spirit of Knowledge.
4- Spirit of the fear of the LORD.
Also, the verses above say "and he will delight in the fear of
the LORD", which clearly proves that Jesus is under GOD Almighty and can not
be equivalent to Him or part of Him, because GOD Almighty has no fear in Him.
He Created fear, or the Spirit of Fear, and He installs it on whom ever He pleases.
But He Himself doesn't have that Spirit in Him!
The verses above also say "He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears;...", which further proves that Jesus is not part of GOD Almighty, because GOD Almighty Speaks and Hears whatever He Pleases!
For more details and proofs, please visit:
My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's absurdities regarding Mark 10:18 where Jesus said he was not "good".
Point #3:
(Jesus according to the Early Christians of years 100 and 200 never got crucified)
From http://www.answering-christianity.com/early_christians.htm:
Early Christians rejected Trinity. They also had major problems and disagreements about who truly Jesus was and whether or not he got crucified or not:
The sections of this article are:
1- Early Christians rejected Trinity.
2- Questions to Trinitarian Christians.
3- Early Christians, especially during the 2nd century, had major disagreements and
problems with each others about the identity of Jesus and whether or not he got
crucified.
4- The quotes of Peter's
Apocalypse that confirm Islam's claims.
See link of Web site that contains the quotes.
JESUS NEVER GOT CRUCIFIED!
1- Early Christians rejected Trinity:
The following was sent to me by brother Fikirman; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
We, Muslims are not the only ones who believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) is mortal and not a god so that means we deny the trinity.
The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity.
Even in the modern age there are churches in Asia, in Africa, the Unitarian church, the Jehovah's witnesses, and even the majority of today's Anglican Bishops do not worship Jesus (peace be upon him) as one in three, as what been report by the "Daily News" 25/6/84 under the heading "Shock survey of Anglican Bishops."
Moreover, the 'Socinianism', the 17th-century Christian also rejects such traditional doctrines as the Trinity and original sin, the founder is Socinus, and his Latinized name of Lelio Francesco Maria Sozzini (1525-1562), the Italian Protestant theologian.
Johannes Greber (1874) a former of Catholic priest in his book 'The Communication with the Spirit World of God' in page 371 was written, "As you see, the doctrine of a triune Godhead is not only contrary to common sense, but is entirely unsupported by the Scriptures". So another priest who was deny the trinity.
A theologians, Edouard Schillebeeckx of the Netherlands in 1979 was writings some article that rejects the doctrine of the Trinity. This caused concern to the Vatican.
2- Question to Trinitarian Christians:
Why, for thousands of years, did none of God's prophets teach his people about the Trinity? At the least, would Jesus not use his ability as the Great Teacher to make the Trinity clear to his followers? Would God inspire hundreds of pages of Scripture and yet not use any of this instruction to teach the Trinity if it were the "central doctrine" of faith?
3- Early Christians, especially during the 2nd century, had major disagreements and problems with each others about the identity of Jesus and whether or not he got crucified:
Introductory Note:
Hebrews 5:7-8 confirm Islam's claim about Jesus never got crucified and contradicts the Bible! According to the documentary film, "Banned from the Bible", which I watched on the History Channel, some of Saint Peter's apocalypse were banned from the current Bible, and these Epistles contain what Islam claims - that Jesus didn't get crucified on the cross and it only appeared that he was. This banned part also says that Jesus was standing next to the cross laughing. These are the parts of the Bible that only few people in the world know about.
According to the documentary film, the apocalypse was very popular among Christians during the 2nd century. They believed "it was spiritually inspired" by GOD Almighty to Saint Peter. They actually had doubts about "John's apocalypse", which is known today as "the Book of Revelation". Interestingly also, this apocalypse says that after GOD Almighty fills both Heaven and Hell with inhabitants from Mankind, and the people of Hell get tortured for a long period of time, the People of Heaven will ask and Pray to GOD Almighty to Forgive the people of Hell. GOD Almighty will then eventually listen to their Prayers, and will order the "Gates and the Steel Bars of Hell" to be opened and allow the people of Hell to enter Heaven for Good. This apocalypse of Peter seems to also perfectly fit Noble Verse 7:40 in the Noble Quran where Allah Almighty Promised that He will eventually open the Gates of Heaven to all disbelievers and empty Hell. Please visit: Hell will eventually be empty according to Islam.
The following three posts from my message board contain the proofs and references about early apocalypses and epistles conflicting with trinity, Jesus' identity about being GOD, and the crucifixion story. During the 2nd century, it was widely believed among many Christians that Jesus never got crucified. This belief perfectly agrees with Islam.
First Post:
| From: Subject: Date: |
Osama Abdallah The apocalypse of Peter confirms ISLAM'S Jesus never got crucified AND Hell will eventually be empty! 4/09/2004 |
Peace be upon you everyone,
I just finished watching the documentary film, "Banned from the Bible" on the History Channel.
Please visit: Hebrews 5:7-8 confirm Islam's claim about Jesus never got crucified and contradicts the Bible! (http://www.answering-christianity.com/hebrews5_7.htm) According to the documentary film, some of Saint Peter's apocalypse were banned from the current Bible, and these Epistles contain what Islam claims - that Jesus didn't get crucified on the cross and it only appeared that he was. This banned part also says that Jesus was standing next to the cross laughing. These are the parts of the Bible that only few people in the world know about.
According to the documentary film, the apocalypse was very popular among Christians during the 2nd century. They believed "it was spiritually inspired" by GOD Almighty to Saint Peter. They actually had doubts about "John's apocalypse", which is known today as "the Book of Revelation". Interestingly also, this apocalypse says that after GOD Almighty fills both Heaven and Hell with inhabitants from Mankind, and the people of Hell get tortured for a long period of time, the People of Heaven will ask and Pray to GOD Almighty to Forgive the people of Hell. GOD Almighty will then eventually listen to their Prayers, and will order the "Gates and the Steel Bars of Hell" to be opened and allow the people of Hell to enter Heaven for Good. This apocalypse of Peter seems to also perfectly fit Noble Verse 7:40 in the Noble Quran where Allah Almighty Promised that He will eventually open the Gates of Heaven to all disbelievers and empty Hell. Please visit: Hell will eventually be empty according to Islam (www.answering-christianity.com/hell.htm).
Best regards,
Osama Abdallah
Second Post:
From http://www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/message_board_islam/read_post.cgi?file_name=162/4.txt
| From: Subject: Date: |
Osama Abdallah RE:RE:The apocalypse of Peter confirms ISLAM'S Jesus never got crucified AND Hell will eventually be empty! 4/10/2004 |
As'salamu Alaikum brother,
In regards to obtaining a copy of the banned apocalypse, I am not aware of any place that you can buy it from. But you can go to any major university and ask any theology professor and he should be able to assist you better.
You can purchase the documentary film, "Banned from the Bible", at www.historychannel.com and watch it for yourself.
In regards to the New Testament, there are 24,000 epistles (letters) found so far that were written about Jesus. Constantine, which came around year 300 decided to chose the current 30+ books and gospels of the "Cannon" or New Testament. But before that, many books or epistles were believed to be inspired, including this banned apocalypse. In fact, this apocalypse was "very popular" and was widely believed that it was "SPIRITUALLY INSPIRED TO SAINT PETER".
The point is, Contantine's decision along with his church is irrelevant here. The 30+ current books of the Bible are corrupted and were written by men. They were chosen from 24,000 epistles, and the 30+ books do contain contradictions in them regarding Jesus' divinity and identity. In www.answering-christianity.com/contra.htm, I have provided ample proof for this.
I personally don't have any proof about the divinity of the banned apocalypse, other than that it was widely believed in during the 2nd century and it perfectly agrees with Islam. To me, Islam's Truth proves the apocalypse's Truthfulness. It is an indirect proof, but it is the only proof anyone can give to any of the 24,000 epistles. Early Christians had major problems and disagreements about who truly Jesus was and whether or not he got crucified or not. Constantine's *easy way out* did not solve the problem, because his books and gospels do contain errors and contradictions in them as well, and some of them even suggest that Jesus never got crucified, as I explained in www.answering-christianity.com/hebrews5_7.htm.
Best regards,
Osama Abdallah
Third Post:
From http://www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/message_board_islam/read_post.cgi?file_name=162/5.txt
| From: Subject: Date: |
Osama Abdallah The documentary film can be purchased at this link..... 4/10/2004 |
http://store.aetv.com/html/search/index.jhtml?search=banned+from+the+bible&x=0&y=0
Best regards,
Osama Abdallah
4- The quotes of Peter's Apocalypse that confirm Islam's claims:
The following quotes, proofs and references of the quotes were posted by brother Haytham on my message board, may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him. I have colored and bolded important points below to make easier to read.
From http://www.answering-christianity.com/cgi-bin/message_board_islam/read_post.cgi?file_name=162/7.txt
| From: Subject: Date: |
Haytham I GOT IT QUOTED HERE 4/11/2004 |
The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."
But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place."
But he said to me, "I have told you, "Leave the blind alone!". And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame."
And I saw someone about to approach us resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree. And he was filled with a Holy Spirit, and he is the Savior. And there was a great, ineffable light around them,and the multitude of ineffable and invisible angels blessing them. And when I looked at him, the one who gives praise was revealed.
And he said to me, "Be strong, for you are the one to whom these mysteries have been given, to know them through revelation, that he whom they crucified is the first-born, and the home of demons, and the stony vessel, in which they dwell, of Elohim, of the cross, which is under the Law. But he who stands near him is the living Savior, the first in him, whom they seized and released, who stands joyfully looking those who did him violence,while they are divided among themselves. Therefore he laughs at their lack of perception, knowing that they are born blind. So then the one susceptible to suffering shall come, since the body is the substitute.But what they released was my incorporeal body. But I am the intellectual Spirit filled with radiant light.He whom you saw coming to me is our intellectual Palermo , which unites the perfect light with my Holy Spirit."
Read on :
"But many others, who oppose the truth and are the messengers of error, will set up their error and their law against these pure thoughts of mine, as looking out from one perspective, thinking that good and evil are from one source. They do business in my word. And they will propagate harsh fate. The race of immortal souls will go in it in vain, until my Parousia. For they shall come out of them, and my forgiveness of their transgressions into which they fell through the adversaries, whose ransom I got from the slavery in which they were, to give them freedom that they may create an imitation remnant in the name of a dead man, who is Hermas, of the first-born of unrighteousness, in order that the light which exists may not believed by the little ones. But those of this sort are the worker who will be cast into the outer darkness, away from the sons of light. For neither will they enter, nor do they permit those who are going up to their approval for their release."
Taken from :
http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/apoc/fgapcpt.htm
Note from me, Osama Abdallah: The article has moved to: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/apoc/fgapcpt.htm
It is noteworthy that many other gospels contain similar messages. You guys need to understand and know that in the first century,
1) EVERY CHURCH HAD ITS OWN DOCTRINE
2) EVERY CHURCH HAD ITS OWN SCRIPTURES.
Not until the first council did the people in Rome set what we see today as the standard christian theology. All those other early churches have been persecuted and killed for their different views.
Salam Alaikum.
Muhammad was prophesized in the Bible.
Corruption in the Old Testament.
History of Man's corruption of the Bible.
The New Testament was not even written by its original authors.
The "God" title in Isaiah 9:6 was given to others before and after Jesus.
The early Christians rejected Trinity and never believed in it.
Contradictions in the resurrection story in the Bible.
Was
Jesus crucified on a tree (according to Peter), cross (according to others), or never got
crucified (according to Islam)?
We only believe in Jesus' personal quotes as closest to the truth.
Jesus according to Islam never got killed on the cross. Allah
Almighty saved him.
Does Psalm 16:8-11 refer to Jesus' resurrection as the book of Acts suggest?
Jesus was never crucified according to the Gospel of Barnabas.
Isaiah 42-54 seem to predict Islam and the removal of GOD Almighty's Covenant from the people of Israel.
Deconstructing Isaiah 53 & the crucifixion/resurrection of Jesus - Exposing Paul's inventions.
Did
Isaiah 53 really prophesies about the crucifixion of Jesus? It
supports Islam's claims about Jesus peace be upon him never died on the cross. I
also addressed John 19:36-37 from the Bible and proved that Jesus never got crucified,
since GOD Almighty promised that he will protect Jesus' body and not let even a single
bone be broken. My question to all Christians is: How
in the world is it possible for the feet to get nailed on the cross without any
penetration to the bones by the nails, hence breaking part of the feet's bones?! I also added refutations to Exodus 12:46,
Numbers 9:12, Zechariah 12:10 and Psalm 34:20, which supposedly prove the
Christians' belief about Jesus crucifixion. I proved that this dogma has no truth
what so ever and exposed the wrong Trinitarian English translation of Zechariah 12:10. I also showed in Isaiah 52:13 "...he will be
raised and lifted up....", which clearly and
perfectly agrees with Islam about Jesus never died on the cross. "Raised
and lifted" suggests that Jesus will be picked up right from the cross, or saved
right from the cross by Allah Almighty. It suggests that Jesus will not die, nor get
crucified, but rather be raised and lifted by GOD Almighty to Heavens.
Hebrews 5:7-8
confirm Islam's claim about Jesus never got crucified and contradicts the Bible!
According to the documentary film, "Banned from the Bible", which I watched on the
History Channel, some of Saint Peter's apocalypse were banned from the current Bible, and these
Epistles contain what Islam claims - that Jesus didn't get crucified on the cross and it
only appeared that he was. This banned part also says that Jesus was
standing next to the cross laughing. These are the parts of the Bible that
only few people in the world know about.
According to the documentary film, the apocalypse was very popular among Christians during the 2nd century. They believed "it was spiritually inspired" by GOD Almighty to Saint Peter. They actually had doubts about "John's apocalypse", which is known today as "the Book of Revelation". Interestingly also, this apocalypse says that after GOD Almighty fills both Heaven and Hell with inhabitants from Mankind, and the people of Hell get tortured for a long period of time, the People of Heaven will ask and Pray to GOD Almighty to Forgive the people of Hell. GOD Almighty will then eventually listen to their Prayers, and will order the "Gates and the Steel Bars of Hell" to be opened and allow the people of Hell to enter Heaven for Good. This apocalypse of Peter seems to also perfectly fit Noble Verse 7:40 in the Noble Quran where Allah Almighty Promised that He will eventually open the Gates of Heaven to all disbelievers and empty Hell. Please visit: Hell will eventually be empty according to Islam.
My Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.
Rebuttals to Sam Shamoun's Articles section.
What is the role of the Holy Spirit in Islam? Why can't we call it GOD?
Errors and History of Contradictions and Corruption in the Bible.
Christians are Commanded to follow the Old Testament.
Allah, Islam, Quran, Muhammad questions and answers.
What is the place of Jews, Christians and non-Muslims in Islam?
"Allah" was GOD Almighty's Original Name in the Bible according to the Hebrew and Aramaic sources.