Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun’s article
A Series of Answers to Common Questions
By
Question:
The Bible says God cannot change (Cf. Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29;
Psalm 102:26-27; Malachi 3:6; Romans 11:29; Hebrews 6:17-18; James 1:17), and that he is
all-knowing (Cf. Job 37:16; Psalm 147:4-5; 1 John 3:20). But the New Testament teaches
that Jesus did change and that he didn't even know the day or hour of his return (Cf. Mark
13:32; Luke 2:40,52). How can Jesus be God if he doesn't even have these essential
attributes of God?
http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_changing.htm
Before I
proceed on to refute this article, I would like to address the reader’s attention to
the seven previous rebuttals
[1] [2]
[3] [4] [5]
[6] [7]
to Shamoun's articles. The reason why I bring this up is because I want the reader to get
the big picture. That being that Shamoun has failed miserably in all seven of his
articles. He has failed miserably in answering what he calls ‘common questions’.
I find it peculiar that Shamoun has made a whole series of it, as he calls it 'A series of
answers to common questions'.
One would
expect to find some sort of answer, or a brief explanation that actually makes sense,
sadly we find none of that. Shamoun has basically failed to do the very thing his articles
in these series are meant to do, rather than answer the questions at hand, he has jumped
from the topic several times to go and try to show that Jesus is God. Thinking he has done
so, he feels he does not need to answer the question. His logic works something like this.
Shamoun:
Well these Muslims are asking all these questions to undermine Jesus, to show he is not
God. So I will prove Jesus is God, and when I do, these questions won’t mean that
Jesus is not God, because I have proven Jesus is God.
Sadly this tactic did not work either, as his arguments to prove Jesus is God backfired and still left the important COMMON questions un-answered. So with that said we can now proceed on to his article.
He wrote:
Answer:
Before we
start addressing the question, we must first clarify what the Holy Bible means that God
cannot change. According to the Holy Scriptures, God is a Dynamic Being, not a static
entity, who interacts with his creation and often manifests his presence in a visible
manner within time and space. This implies that when the Bible speaks of God's
unchangeability, or immutability, this is referring to God's essence, his attributes, his
purpose, his decrees, but it doesn't mean that God is immobile or immovable, that God is
static and doesn't act or interact with his creatures.
My response:
Thank you
for explaining to us what is meant by God not changing. However before we move on, let me
elaborate a bit more on what it means that God does not change, and in doing so we can
then proceed on with the article with a clearer picture. It is quite clear from those
verses Numbers 23:19; 1
Samuel 15:29; Psalm 102:26-27; Malachi 3:6; Romans 11:29; Hebrews 6:17-18; James 1:17, that God does not change. However, what
does it mean that God does not change? Does it mean that God never becomes a man and
changes shape? Does it mean he takes on no other different forms? Shamoun and many
Christians obviously don’t believe that. That is fair enough, however so they still
do not get the big picture from what God means when he says he does not change. To make
things clear lets quote some of those verses.
Num 23:19: God
is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he
said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
1 Samuel
15:29: And also the
Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
Malachi 3:6: For I am the LORD, I change not;
therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Those three
verses should do. So basically we see making it very clear that he does not change. As
Shamoun correctly stated, when God says he does not change, this means he does not change
his essence, his attributes, his purpose and his decrees. However, this leaves the
Christians with a problem. Sure the Christians say that those verses don’t mean that
God cannot become a man, however the verses are still very clear, that God is not LIKE a
man to repent or change his mind, God is not LIKE a man to be weak and have no power, God
is not LIKE a man to become a servant. That is the main message that God is sending, he
not like a man, so we cannot try and compare him with us, and he is not like a man to
change his mind, such as his laws and his teachings. However so, if Jesus is indeed God,
then God has indeed taken a drastic U-turn and has changed, not because he became a man,
or the son of man, but because his attributes and essence have completely CHANGED.
1-
God’s attributes never change, he is ALWAYS all POWERFUL and all MIGHTY, and is not
in need of anyone else, he owns everything and has all power and authority. Jesus was not
all-powerful nor was he all mighty, since he had nothing of his own, everything he had was
from the Father. Jesus did not own anything, especially the authority he had. It was
GIVEN, not owned by Jesus. Jesus was in need of the Father to spread the message and teach
the people, by signs, miracles, and doctrine. All those things were given to Jesus. God is
not in need of ANYTHING. That is why he says he is not LIKE a man. So basically if we are
to believe Jesus is God, then it is without a doubt that God did change and lied when he
said he does not change. Let us just make a summary out of point one.
A- God is
not in need of anything or anyone: Jesus was in need of the Father. (John 8:28, John 5:30,
Heb 5:7-8)
B- God OWNS
everything, all things belong to him, he does not receive power or authority from others.
Jesus did not own ANYTHING, everything he had was from the Father, from miracles to his
doctrine, and nothing was his. The divine Jesus who is not bound by the flesh is also in
need of things. (John 14:24, John 7:16, Mat 28:18, John 13:3, John 17:6-8, as for the
divine Jesus being GIVEN things Dan 7: 13-14)
So the facts
are clear, Jesus is in no way similar to God, and if Jesus is God, then God did definitely
change!
2- God's
message doesn’t change either; God does not change his mind or repent. However so, we
hear Christians saying Jesus came down to die for our sins, which is another drastic
U-turn in the way God does things. The first commandment was always the most important of
all, and so were several other commandments. However we now see that position has changed.
We now have to believe in Jesus dying for our sins to be saved, and that the NT and OT are
very different. So the fact of the matter is that if Jesus is God, then God did change his
message, and his mind on the way he does things, by making Jesus die for our sins. It
seems God was not strong enough that he had to make an easy way into heaven for us, just
believe in Jesus and you’re saved. It seems God gave up on us.
So it is
clear, if Jesus is God, then God did change. However so, I do not believe that God did
change, and that Jesus is NOT God. The facts are there for everyone to see. Again read my
previous 7 rebuttals to Shamoun [1]
[2] [3]
[4] [5] [6]
[7], and you will see Jesus in NO WAY can be the same powerful
and all mighty God of the OT. So with that all cleared up, we can now move on the article
after establishing what is meant by God not changing, and that Jesus in no way can be God
because that would mean God did change.
He wrote:
With the
foregoing in mind, we can now proceed to the question. The Holy Scriptures teach that the
Lord Jesus is God's eternal Word who became flesh, who became a real human being. The same
Scriptures also teach that Christ is fully God in nature, having all the essential
attributes of Deity (Cf. John 1:1-3, 14; Colossians 2:9). Now Jesus didn't relinquish his
Deity in order to become man, but retained his divine nature since he can never cease
being God. This is where his immutability comes in. At Christ's Incarnation, there wasn't
a subtraction of his Deity, but an addition of humanity; he added, not subtracted,
something to his own divine Person.
My response:
That is a
false statement; consult all my 7 rebuttals, and all the verses I posted up the page.
Jesus was in no way God. Jesus did not have any divine nature. That is a lie; the NT
refutes Shamoun on that. Jesus' own words refute Shamoun on that, and if you don’t
believe me, just read each verse I posted and my previous rebuttals [1]
[2] [3]
[4] [5] [6]
[7]. Jesus cannot be the same God who said he does not change.
He wrote:
Thus, when
we take into account all of what the Scriptures teach about the Lord Jesus, we come to the
conclusion that Christ is immutable as far as his divine nature is concerned, that Christ
never ceased having all of the divine attributes even while on earth in the form of a man.
But, at the same time, the Lord Jesus was also mutable in relation to his human nature.
After his resurrection, Christ's human nature is no longer experiencing growth or change
since it is now glorified and has attained complete human perfection. In other words,
after the resurrection Christ’s physical body became immortal.
My response:
More and more lies coming from Shamoun. Shamoun made the statement: Christ never ceased having all of the divine attributes even while on earth in the form of a man. That is a sad lie, the verses I posted and my 7 rebuttals refute that lie. I challenge Shamoun to bring ONE verse where Jesus performed a single miracle by himself, or taught something from HIMSELF, without any one else assisting him. As for Christ's resurrection, I gave a verse showing that even the divine Christ needs to be given things. I also showed that even the DIVINE Christ is not all knowing. Also visit:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_had_no_will.htm
So more and
more lies from Shamoun. The scripture he refers to teaches that Jesus is NOT God.
He wrote:
This is the
reason why the same Scriptures can speak of Christ being omniscient, or all-knowing, while
not knowing the day or hour of his return. Basically, this is another example of a
both/and scenario, that Christ was both immutable and mutable, two seemingly contradictory
set of attributes coexisting side by side in the one divine Person of Jesus, since he had
two distinct natures simultaneously.
My response:
Everything
Shamoun is saying has been already refuted by me in the previous seven rebuttals [1] [2]
[3] [4] [5]
[6] [7].
So Shamoun is basically ranting over the same old arguments that I have refuted him on,
and old arguments he has yet to prove. Also another thing to point here, the divine Jesus
was also NOT all knowing, and the divine Jesus was GIVEN things. The facts are clear,
Jesus is not God. Consult my 7 rebuttals and the verses I have posted.
He wrote:
We don't
pretend to claim that we have this figured out, or know exactly how this works in every
detail. We just know that this is what the Holy Bible, God's true Word, teaches.
My response:
In other
words, Shamoun is basically saying he does not understand what the Bible says about Jesus,
and that he is confused and believes in something he does not understand. That is his and
every Christian’s loss.
I on the
other hand, and every Muslim are not confused, and understand the basics and the main
concept of Islam very clearly, and we are not confused about Allah. Thank you for
admitting you believe in something you don’t understand, because the Bible has been
corrupted and tampered with, that is why you are confused.
He wrote:
Here, now,
is the biblical evidence supporting the fact that Christ, as far as his Deity was
concerned, is immutable and omniscient even while on earth, before and after his
resurrection:
"But of the Son he says ...
‘You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are
the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a
garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you
are the same, and your years will have no end.’" Hebrews 1:8a, 10-12
"Jesus Christ is the same
yesterday and today and forever." Hebrews 13:8
The author
refers to Jesus’ pre-incarnate state, to his pre-human existence, when Christ created
the cosmos and explicitly says that, from the very time that creation came into being,
Christ remains the same. Therefore, Christ is immutable! And, as we already noted, there
is obviously something different after the Incarnation, since Christ took on a human
nature. Yet Jesus’ divine nature never changed since he never ceased being God even
while on earth.
My response:
Let me just
refute Shamoun on Hebrews 13:8, because the verse actually hurts his argument of Jesus
being God. If Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow, then this means Jesus was
always in need of things from the Father! If Jesus is always the same then Jesus NEVER
owned anything of his own! He never had his own authority and power. As the verse says
Jesus is the same yesterday tomorrow and forever. We cannot say that before Jesus took on
the flesh, that he was all-powerful and mighty, because this is totally illogical and
against what the verse is stating. Once Jesus became man he completely CHANGED from his
former state, in his former state, which we are to believe, is that he was all-powerful
and not bound by the flesh. However the fact is obvious, once he became man he CHANGED a
lot. He became a servant and let go of his powers or so we are told. And if Shamoun
believes that Jesus is the same tomorrow, meaning the future, then this means Jesus was
still bound by the flesh, because if he did change back to his former state of being which
is to be divine, then that is a huge change!
So overall
Jesus changes two times, the first is when he became a man (he was given everything,
unlike when he was in his divine state), the second is when Jesus returned back to his
fully divine state and no longer being bound by the flesh. So overall if Shamoun believes
Hebrews 13:8, then this means Jesus was never God! Because the verse says Jesus never
changed, he is always the same, so this means he was always bound by the flesh and in need
of things, and that my friend does not work.
However, the
problem does not stop there. The verse says Jesus does not change in the same sense that
God does not change. However so, we have established what is meant by God not changing,
and the fact is Jesus does change in the way God says he will not change, which is to
become LIKE a man which is to give up his powers and attributes etc. So the verse itself
is a mistake! Because Jesus did in fact go through two huge changes. However if Christians
are too blind or too proud to admit the verse is not a mistake, then they will have to
accept the fact that Jesus did not ever change, meaning when he took on the flesh, that
was not a change, so basically it means Jesus was ALWAYS like a man and was always
limited. That conclusion also still leaves the Christian with a problem! If Jesus was
always LIKE a man, and being bound by flesh and being limited, then that means God did not
know what he talking about when he said he is not LIKE a man, because there was already
one person within the God-head who was LIKE a man and a man in every sense. So one must
ask why did God say he is not LIKE a man when Jesus was always LIKE a man? Did God not
know? Or was Jesus never like a man and did in fact change when he took on the flesh and
limited himself contradicting the very words of God that he is not LIKE a man. That he
does not change. So either way the Christian is still left with a lot of problems.
1- If you
truly believe Hebrews 13:8, then this means Jesus never changed and was always bound by
the flesh and being limited, which that in itself proves he is not God.
2- If you
believe the verse, then this means Jesus never changed and was always bound by the flesh,
and that the Bible is lying when it says Jesus let go of his powers and became like a
servant.
3- If you
believe Jesus never changed, then this means Jesus was always bound by the flesh and being
limited as a man, then this would make no sense in God saying he is not LIKE a man, and
that he does not change. Either God did not know there was a Jesus who was LIKE a man, and
a man in every sense, or God just didn’t know what he was talking about.
4- However
the Bible makes it clear Jesus was not always bound by the flesh, and took it on and
limited himself and became LIKE a man, that in itself contradicting the words of God when
he says he is not LIKE a man. As we have already explained what is meant by God not
changing, meanings his attributes, his powers, his essence and his qualities, Jesus
changed in every single way if he is God.
5- Jesus did
in fact change two times, the first time is when he became a man and limited himself,
which is a change, as he let go of his powers, and attributes, and as we have already
shown earlier, this is a huge change when we take the words of God that he is not LIKE a
man. Jesus was LIKE a man and Jesus became LIKE a man on his will! Obviously if Jesus is
God he forgot when God said he is not LIKE a man.
The second
change Jesus went through is when he died and came back to life in his divine state of
being, two obvious changes.
So
Christians can decide what to believe about the verse, but the verse will still cause them
a lot of problems. I will leave this for Shamoun and every Christian to solve.
Shamoun also
lied again when he said Jesus' divine nature never ceased, a huge lie. Bring me the verse
where Jesus did a single divine thing on his own. I would also like to know when a divine
being needed to be GIVEN EVERYTHING he had?
He wrote:
But Jesus, knowing their thoughts,
said, 'Why do you think evil in your hearts?'" Matthew 9:4
Christ knew
what these individuals were thinking within their hearts, a knowledge which the Old
Testament says only God has:
"then hear in heaven your
dwelling place and forgive and act and render to each whose heart you know, according to
all his ways (for you, you ONLY, know the hearts of all the children of mankind)," 1
Kings 8:39
"For the Son of Man is going to
come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person
according to what he has done." Matthew 16:27
Christ
performs a function which the Old Testament scriptures say Yahweh will perform when he
comes to judge the people:
"Behold, the Lord GOD comes with
might, and his arm rules for him; behold, his reward is with him, and his recompense
before him." Isaiah 40:10
"and that to you, O Lord, belongs
steadfast love. For you will render to a man according to his work." Psalm 62:12
My response:
To start
off, in Matthew 9:4, it would take a genius to figure out that there were people who had
evil thoughts in their heart. Why don’t we quote a bit more from Matthew to see what
was going on.
Matthew
9:1-8: 1 And he entered
into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city. 2 And, behold, they brought to
him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the
sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. 3 And, behold,
certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. 4 And Jesus knowing
their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 5 For whether is easier, to
say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6 But that ye may know that
the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the
palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7 And he arose, and departed to
his house. 8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had
given such power unto men.
So now we
have a better understanding of the context. And when you look at the context it is clear
that there is nothing special meant in Jesus saying ‘why do you have evil
thoughts’. Let us go over the verses starting from the beginning.
Jesus
basically went to a sick man. Having seen the sick man had good faith; Jesus forgave the
man of his sins (a great miracle given to Jesus by God). Now there were others who were
beside them 'certain scribes'. Now these scribes of course did not believe in Jesus at
all. They did not believe he is a prophet or any man sent from God. So naturally when they
see Jesus saying your sins are forgiven they are bound to become upset and tell themselves
that Jesus is sinning. Now Jesus of course is a smart man. He is a man sent from God,
taught by God, so he is very smart. So it is nothing special that Jesus realizes from the
face of the scribes that they are harboring bad ideas. It is no coincidence he says this
to the scribes right after he says your sins are forgiven.
Jesus knows
the unbelievers from the believers. Jesus is smart enough to tell when some one is
offended by his sayings. So right after Jesus says your sins are forgiven, the scribes
start saying he is a liar. Obviously when you get a bit angry, it shows on your face,
especially if you think a man is blaspheming against God. The look on your face would show
your feelings. So Jesus then turns to them, they are already saying it within themselves
that Jesus is a liar and so on. So Jesus looks them in the face and is smart enough to
realize they are not very fond of what he just said. So Jesus being smart enough to
realize this tells them '
Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be
forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath
power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up
thy bed, and go unto thine house.'
It is also
more interesting to note what those men and the people thought of Jesus, the men and the
people did not think Jesus was claiming to be God, the ending of the verse is the most
important part which states: 7 And he arose, and departed to his
house. 8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had
given such power unto men.
So as we
see, a lot of people saw it and were amazed, and what did they do? They glorified God, not
Jesus. They glorified God and were amazed at God for giving such power unto men (Jesus).
So the fact is the people didn’t see him as God when he did that, nor did the men
accusing him of blasphemy. So from the context and situation, it is obvious Jesus did not
have any special power to read their minds, and it is obvious that no one believed he is
God, including the author, because notice how he ends the verse: 7 And he arose, and departed to his
house. 8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had
given such power unto men. It
is obvious from the way the ending is written, that the author himself believed the power
was given unto the man Jesus, and not just the view of the people. As Jesus coming down
with angels, I turned the argument on Shamoun here (*).
He wrote:
Christ is,
therefore, affirming to have the same omni-attributes that God alone has, since this is
the only way he could be able to know and repay a person for what he/she has done. In
other words, Christ is identifying himself as Yahweh God!
My response:
Well Shamoun
has now made an argument, and he assumes he is correct, and walks into it and says Jesus
is God. Well the facts are clear, Shamoun has none.
For real
facts, consult my 7 rebuttals and the verses I have posted.
He wrote:
Philip found Nathanael and said to
him, 'We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of
Nazareth, the son of Joseph.' Nathanael said to him, 'Can anything good come out of
Nazareth?" Philip said to him, 'Come and see." Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward
him and said of him, 'Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!' Nathanael
said to him, 'How do you know me?' Jesus answered him, 'Before Philip called you, when you
were under the fig tree, I SAW YOU.' Nathanael answered him, 'Rabbi, you are the Son of
God! You are the King of Israel!'" John 1:45-49
Without
having been physically present in the same vicinity where Nathanael lay, Jesus already had
seen him.
My response:
Does that
prove Jesus is God? With all the evidence and facts I have given it is clear that Jesus is
not God. However the verses Shamoun posted are very easy to respond to. Shamoun seems to
be forgetting something I keep pointing out, something he and every Christian knows, which
is that Jesus was given power and authority by God. So one would find it normal for Jesus
to do such a thing, it is a great gift from God given to Jesus, to have such knowledge. I
see the glory of God's power and mercy to his servant, Shamoun cannot see that, he assumes
every special thing Jesus does, which seems out of this world makes him God.
My friend
Shamoun, we call those things MIRACLES.
He wrote:
Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in
the Son. If you ask ME anything in my name, I will do it." John 14:13-14
Jesus is able to both hear and answer
all the prayers offered to him, requiring him to be both omniscient and omnipotent.
My response:
I have already addressed this verse
in a previous rebuttal (*).
Jesus is not God, the proof is against you, you must prove it wrong, which sadly you
cannot do. Everything you bring to the table about Jesus being God has either been already
refuted by me in a previous rebuttal, or easily refuted in the present article, basically
Shamoun has nothing.
He wrote:
"Now we know that you know all things and do not need anyone to question you;
this is why we believe that you came from God.' Jesus answered them, 'Do you now
believe?'" John 16:30-31
"He said to him the third time, 'Simon, son of John, do you love me?' Peter
was grieved because he said to him the third time, 'Do you love me?' and he said to him,
'Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.' Jesus said to him, 'Feed my
sheep.'" John 21:17
In these citations, both before and
after the resurrection, the Apostles acknowledge that Christ is omniscient.
"Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes,
who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes
of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God." 1 Corinthians
4:5
My response:
Once again
Shamoun does the thing, which I spoke of at the start of my article. Instead of answering
the question, he runs around to try and prove Jesus is God, assuming he has done that, he
feels the question is no longer important. However so, Shamoun has failed to prove Jesus
is God. Shamoun must refute the evidence against Jesus, rather than take parts of the
Bible, which help him out and show that Jesus is God. When it is obvious, the context of
the Bible teaches that Jesus is not God. Consult my 7 rebuttals and verses I posted which
show the Bible indeed does confirm that Jesus is NOT God. The verses Shamoun posted prove
nothing, I have shown enough evidence to prove that Jesus is NOT God.
He wrote:
According to
Paul, the Lord who is coming to judge the intents and motives is the Lord Jesus:
"so that you are not lacking in
any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will
sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Corinthians
1:7-8
"For we must all appear before
the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done
in the body, whether good or evil." 2 Corinthians 5:10
My response:
I could care
less to what Paul has to say, the facts remain, Jesus is NOT God. You and Paul must refute
the irrefutable evidence which shows the Jesus is NOT God. I have proven my argument; you
have yet to prove yours.
He wrote:
Again, Jesus
knows what only God can know:
"And you, Solomon my son, know
the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the
LORD searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will
be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever." 1 Chronicles
28:9
My response:
Jesus is in
no way God; there is enough proof against you. You cannot refute the evidence proving that
Jesus is NOT GOD!
He wrote:
Christ,
while in heavenly glory, gave his beloved John the following revelation to pass on to the
Churches:
"And to the angel of the church
in Thyatira write: 'The words of the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and
whose feet are like burnished bronze... and I will strike her children dead. And all the
churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of
you as your works deserve.'" Revelation 2:18, 23
My response:
That does
not show Jesus being God, but I have showed from the Bible that Jesus is NOT GOD.
He wrote:
Jesus
applies the following Old Testament language to himself, thereby identifying himself as
Yahweh God:
"I the LORD search the heart and
test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his
deeds." Jeremiah 17:10
My response:
Did God in
the OT ever show he is not all knowing? Or did he need things? Or did the power he has not
belonged to him? The facts are clear; Jesus in no way is God. I have shown and proved
this, Shamoun now is just ranting and ranting, the facts are against him, not for him.
He wrote:
Again, that Christ can know what is in the hearts
and minds of all the people in order to repay them accordingly presupposes both his
omniscience and omnipotence, as well as highlighting that he has inexhaustible means or
resources at his disposal!
The
foregoing conclusively shows that the Lord Jesus is indeed immutable and omniscient in
relation to his Deity, while being mutable and not all-knowing as far as his human nature
is concerned. But even his human nature has undergone a transformation after the
resurrection, achieving its full human potential, i.e. immortality, indestructibility etc.
(Cf. Luke 13:32; 1 Corinthians 15:35-49; Hebrews 7:16, 25).
My response:
Actually the
evidence shows that Jesus is not God; consult my previous 7 rebuttals [1]
[2] [3]
[4] [5] [6]
[7], and the verses I posted, which prove without a shadow of a
doubt, that Jesus is not God.
He wrote:
Now that we
have provided the biblical evidence which establishes Christ's immutability, we want to
take a closer look at Mark 13:32 in order to show how this passage establishes Christ's
supremacy over all creation. The text says:
"But concerning that day or that
hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Mark 13:32
There is
clearly an order of ascendancy here, i.e. man, angels, the Son, and then the Father.
Christ is implicitly presenting himself as being superior to both men and angels, being
subject only to the Father's authority. This is how it would look if we were to put it in
terms of rank:
1. The Father.
2. The Son.
3. The angels.
4. Fallen humanity.
This
understanding bears out when we realize that man, according to the Holy Bible, is
positionally lower than the angels for the time being, not having the glory which the
angels currently have due to the fall of man. It is only in Christ that persons can
reclaim and regain the glory which they had in Adam before the fall, and because of our
union with Jesus we are thereby exalted higher than the angels in position (Cf. Hebrews
2:1-9).
In fact, in
the very same chapter of Mark, Jesus says that both the angels and God's elect belong to
him, coming under his sovereign headship and authority:
"And then they will see the Son
of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels
and gather HIS elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of
heaven." Mark 13:26-27
Thus, Jesus
plainly taught that he is superior to all creation, which would include all the prophets,
and is subject only to his divine Father.
My response:
Where is the
answer to why Jesus did not know the last hour? Shamoun did not even try to address the
issue; instead he talks about some order of rank. The case is closed, Shamoun has no
answer to why Jesus did not know, and he could at least ATTEMPT to give one explanation.
Either way there will be no way out, consult this rebuttal to show without a doubt even
the divine Jesus was not all-knowing (*).
So once
again, Shamoun failed to prove Jesus is God. There is enough evidence to show Jesus is not
God. I proved that without a doubt, if we are to take Jesus as God, then God did change,
which is the whole issue, and I also proved from Hebrews 13:8, that Jesus is NOT GOD,
which I must thank Shamoun for, he brought the verse up. So the fact is Jesus is not God,
never was God, and never will be God.
My Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.
Rebuttals to Sam Shamoun's Articles section.
Sami Zaatari's Rebuttals section.