When we read the Bible, we come across a story in which jesus performs a miracle by feeding 5,000 people with only 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes. This story can be found in all 4 of the Gospels: Mark 6:30-42, Matthew 14:13-21, Luke 9:10-17 and John 6:1-14. When an average reader reads the Gospels, he tends to read each Gospel vertically. But, when you analyze this story in each of these Gospels side by side horizontally and carefully, we find contradictions.
1) When the disciples came to jesus late in the day, according to Mark's Gospel, they say:
Mark 6:38:
"How many loaves do you have?" he asked. "Go and see." When they found out, they said, "Five - and two fish."
Jesus asks how many loaves they had, and the disciples find out and respond by saying "Five - and two fish." However, in Matthew's and Luke's Gospel during the EXACT same time, in the same story, the disciples respond to jesus by saying:
Matthew 14:17:
"We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish," they answered."
Luke 9
"They answered, "We have only five loaves of bread and two fish - unless we go and buy food for all this crowd."
The response given by the disciples in Mark 6:38 is NOT in any other Gospel. The response given by the disciples in Matthew 14:17 is NOT in any other Gospel and the response given by the disciples in Luke 9:13 is NOT in any other Gospel. So, in 3 different Gospels, in the same story, at the same time, the disciples respond differently. I'm not arguing here that the main point we get from these verses contradict one another; I am arguing here that the words said by the disciples at the SAME time, SAME story but in 2 different Gospels contradict one another.
Combining 3 Gospels together here, Matthew 14:17 and Luke 9:13 would NOT reconcile with Mark 6:38, because in Mark 6:38 we see here that the disciples ONLY used 4 words to respond to Jesus. In the other 2 Gospels, they used more words. Some Christians may say that: "the disciples said both what is in Mark 6:38 and the other 2 Gospels by responding twice." There is no proof that they did respond twice. The Gospels are each 3 separate books, so by combining the 3 Gospels, the Christian is basically writing his own Gospel, and trying to make 1 Gospel say what the other 1 is not.
Some Christians may say: "Mark 6:38 is telescoping the other 2 Gospels, by not showing literally what the disciples said in Mark 6:38, but the message they conveyed to Jesus." Again, there is no proof that the intention of the author of Mark 6:38 wanted to do this. There's no historical background as to when each verse was revealed telling us the background of each verse, or how the disciples or jesus interpreted it. Therefore, to suggest that Mark 6:38 is telescoping the response of the other 2 Gospels is just Christian's own interpretation.
Moreover, we know that from historical records that the chronological order of when the Gospels were written is: Mark, Matthew, Luke then John.
"The majority view today is that Mark is the first Gospel, with Matthew and Luke borrowing passages both from that Gospel and from at least one other common source, lost to history, termed by scholars 'Q' (from German: Quelle, meaning "source")."
Matthew: c. 70�100.[15]c 80-85.[2] Some conservative scholars argue for a pre-70 date, particularly those that do not accept Mark as the first gospel written.
Luke: c. 80�100, with most arguing for somewhere around 85,[15], c 80-85[2]
John: c 90-100,[2] c. 90�110,[16] The majority view is that it was written in stages, so there was no one date of composition.
Moreover, one of the leading Bible scholar's of today (Professor Bart Ehrman) says in 1 of his debates (watch
) that:
"Scholars debate when the Gospels were written, but by far the most common datings was that Mark was written sometime around 65 or 70 AD. Luke and Matthew about 10 or 15 years later. John maybe 10 or 15 years later; John maybe around the year 90 or 95. Matthew and Luke around 80-85. These are the dates that are taught throughout the universities and divinity schools, seminaries of North America and Europe. I take them to be right for reasons I can give you, if anyone really wants to know; it's a complicated argument." (Time Slice: 1:04-1:38, Ehrman-Licona Debate: Can Historians Prove jesus Rose From The Dead? Part 2).
So, to say that Mark is telescoping what Matthew and Luke said is highly unlikely, because on historical grounds, Mark was written BEFORE any other biblical Gospel by different authors. So, what did the disciples say in response to Jesus? Did they say:
"Five - and two fish."as in Mark 6:38. Or "We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish" as in Matthew 14:17 & Luke 9:13? We see here that Mark 6:38 contradicts both Matthew 14:17 & Luke 9:13, resulting in 2 contradicting verses here. Moreover, the story in John's Gospel doesn't help refute this allegation at all, just read in yourself: John 6:1-14.
2) When the disciples come to jesus during the evening time, according to Mark's Gospel, they say:
Mark 6:36:
"Send the people away so they can go to the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat."
During the same time, same story but in Matthew's Gospel, they say:
Matthew 14
"As evening approached, the disciples came to him and said, "This is a remote place, and it's already getting late. Send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food."
In Mark's Gospel, they say "something to eat..." but in Matthew's Gospel, they say "food." Did the disciples say "Send the people away so they can go to the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat "or "Send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food?"
I'm not arguing here that the main point we get from these verses contradict one another; I am arguing here that the words said by the disciples at the SAME time, SAME story but in 2 different Gospels contradict one another. Moreover, there is no evidence that the disciples said both, because both of these sentences are the SAME ones, apart from this contradiction as to whether or not the disciples said "food" or "something to eat." Moreover, the story in John's Gospel doesn't help refute this allegation at all, just read in yourself: John 6:1-14.
3) When the disciples were talking to jesus about the remote place & about the people going to get something to eat in this story, in which order did they say the following statement in?
Remote place THEN send the crowd away to eat:
Mark 6:35-36:
"By this time it was late in the day, so his disciples came to him. "This is a remote place," they said, "and it's already very late. Send the people away so they can go to the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat."
Matthew 14
"As evening approached, the disciples came to him and said, "This is a remote place, and it's already getting late. Send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food."
Send the crowd away THEN remote place:
Luke 9
"Late in the afternoon the Twelve came to him and said, "Send the crowd away so they can go to the surrounding villages and countryside and find food and lodging, because we are in a remote place here."
It is clear in Mark and Matthew's Gospel that the disciples first claimed "this is a remote place," and THEN said that the people should be sent away to get something to eat. In the SAME story, in the SAME sentence and the SAME time in Luke's Gospel, the order of which the 2 points they made is reversed. So what was the order of which the disciples said this statement? This is clearly a chorological contradiction. I'm not arguing here that the main point we get from these verses contradict one another; I am arguing here that the order in which the SAME statement said by the disciples, at the SAME time & SAME story but in different Gospels are different & contradictory. Mark 6:35-36 and Matthew 14:15 contradict Luke 9:12, which shows 2 verses which contradict with 1 verse, totaling 2 contradictory verses. Moreover, the story in John's Gospel doesn't help refute this allegation at all, just read in yourself: John 6:1-14.
4) Did his disciples go with jesus to Bethsaida after feeding 5,000 people, or before feeding 5,000 people?
Mark 6:44:
"The number of the men who had eaten was five thousand."
Mark 6:45:
"Immediately jesus made his disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to Bethsaida, while he dismissed the crowd."
In this Gospel, they go TO Bethsaida after jesus feeds 5,000 people, which indicates that in Mark's Gospel, jesus was not in Bethsaida when he fed 5,000. However, we see in Luke's Gospel:
Luke 9:10-11:
"When the apostles returned, they reported to jesus what they had done. Then he took them with him and they withdrew by themselves to a town called Bethsaida, but the crowds learned about it and followed him."
Luke 9:13-14:
"They answered, "We have only five loaves of bread and two fish - unless we go and buy food for all this crowd." (About five thousand men were there)."
Luke 9:17:
"They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over."
Here, we see that jesus and the disciples go to Bethsaida THEN the 5,000 people fed. In Mark's Gospel, it is the other way round. Some may say that "In Mark 6:45, it doesn't mean literally going to Bethsaida, it means moving on from Bethsaida." The text doesn't imply or support this, because it says they go TO Bethsaida. This clearly implies that they weren't already in Bethsaida, when jesus fed the 5,000 people. The context of both Gospels are the same, and the other 2 Gospels (Matthew and John) does not resolve this contradiction. This is clearly another chronological contradiction
5) After feeding the 5,000 people, the disciples got into a boat and headed across the lake to what town?
Bethsaida:
Mark 6:44:
"The number of the men who had eaten was five thousand."
Mark 6:45:
"Immediately jesus made his disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to Bethsaida, while he dismissed the crowd."
Capernaum:
John 6:16-17:
"When evening came, his disciples went down to the lake, where they got into a boat and set off across the lake for Capernaum. By now it was dark, and jesus had not yet joined them."
Geographically, Bethsaida is at the east and Capernaum is in the west. We see:
This does not solve the problem of where the disciples went. If Bethsaida is along the way to and that was where jesus told them to go, why would the disciples go to Capernaum? Therefore, this explanation by the Christian is false.
Moreover, if disciples were told to go ahead to Bethsaida, this implies that when jesus fed 5,000 people, they weren't already at Bethsaida. According to the following verses, they were already at Bethsaida when jesus fed 5,000 people:
Luke 9:10-11:
"When the apostles returned, they reported to jesus what they had done. Then he took them with him and they withdrew by themselves to a town called Bethsaida, but the crowds learned about it and followed him."
Luke 9:13-14:
"They answered, "We have only five loaves of bread and two fish - unless we go and buy food for all this crowd." (About five thousand men were there)."
Luke 9:17:
"They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over."
Why does it contradict? Because the Christian said that: "In Mark 6:45 they are told to go ahead to Bethsaida, for Bethsaida," and this implies that when jesus fed 5,000 people, they WERE NOT already at Bethsaida. This contradicts Luke 9 which says they were at Bethsaida when 5,000 people were fed. This is why this Christian explanation is false. So, which town did the disciples head to after jesus fed the 5,000 people? The context of both Gospels are the same, and the other 2 Gospels (Luke and Matthew) does not resolve this contradiction.
So to conclude, a total of 7 contradicting verses of what disciples had said, have been discussed in the 5 allegations, of ONLY 1 story of the Bible. Almost every Christian would never have known these contradictions in this story beforehand, as they don't read the Gospels horizontally. Just read a story in 1 Gospel and the same story in another Gospel, carefully and critically, and you will see multiple differences and contradictions.
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15.02.2011, 13:35
Contradictions In Biblical Story: Jesus Feeds 5,000 People
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