Further rebuttals to Jim's hoax on "suckling porn in Islam" lie:
Before we proceed with his article, let us first look at the DARKNESS in his porn-full bible; the book of pedophilia, murder, TERRORISM, and women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine":
Aisha in Islam: Let's discuss the age of Aisha being 9 when she married our Prophet (CLICK HERE): 1- See proofs, in the "Aisha being 9" article, from the Bible about little girls as young as 9 were married off and even sold off by their fathers as slave girls to men who were even older than their fathers. 2- See also irrefutable proofs that pedophilia and terrorism exist in the Bible. During the Mosaic times in the Bible's Old Testament, 3-year old slave girls were literally forced into sex under Moses' Orders and Command. You sometimes have to read things twice to believe them! See also: Maiming of the enemies' bodies in the Bible. Cutting the hands and feet of the enemies in the Bible, and hanging their live bodies on trees until they DIE. *** Killing of innocent children in the Bible. *** X-Rated Pornography in the Bible. *** Fathers sticking their fingers into their daughters' vaginas before marriage in the Bible.
Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries. Also visit: Why Muta (temporary) Marriage was allowed and why it was discontinued. |
Jim-The problem with Mr. Abdallah's conclusion is that none of these hadith refer anyway to any laws to keep people from fornication.
Osama- This is completely bogus, because Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him further elaborated on Noble Verse 4:23 in the Noble Quran:
"Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;- (The Noble Quran, 4:23)"
As we clearly see in the Noble Verse, any woman who breast feeds anyone becomes prohibited upon him in marriage. Not only her, but her daughters as well.
Let us look at the following narrations about Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him that further support Noble Verse 4:23 above:
Osama- Narrated Uqba bin Al-Harith: "That he had married Um Yahya bint Abu Ihab. He said. "A black slave-lady came and said, 'I suckled you both.' I then mentioned that to the Prophet who turned his face aside." Uqba further said, "I went to the other side and told the Prophet about it. He said, 'How can you (keep her as your wife) when the lady has said that she suckled both of you (i.e. you and your wife?)" So, the Prophet ordered him to divorce her. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Witnesses, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 827)"
Osama- Narrated 'Uqba bin Al-Harith: "I married a woman and later on a woman came and said, "I suckled you both." So, I went to the Prophet (to ask him about it). He said, "How can you (keep her as a wife) when it has been said (that you were foster brother and sister)? Leave (divorce) her. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Witnesses, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 828)"
Jim- 1. How does sucking a woman's breast stop you from
fornication?
2. If this does keep people from fornication then why is it that Solomon and his wife
description of this making people go to fornication?
3. To purify Islamic society one must go suck an unmarried woman's breast upon the
prophets command?
Osama- First of all, it was a boy who sucked the woman's breast. It wasn't a grown up man as we know grown up men today.
Second, nothing can really stop a sick minded person for fornication. If for instance your fathers wife (step mother as we call it today) is totally beautiful and has the body of a super model, then if you're going to be sick enough to fantasize about her despite the fact that she is your step mother, then this is completely up to you. No Islam or any other religion can stop you. So your point about Islam failing to stop someone from fornication is a bogus one.
Jim-This conclusion from these hadith is way off basis and is only worthy of being classified along with he fables and myths of lore. It seems like Mr. Abdallah is guilty again of trying to explain away obvious problems with Muhammad's actions. If it is wrong for Solomon and his wife to do it, according to Mr. Abdallah's cultural bigotry, then is it right for a married woman to do it to a young man who isn't her husband? This would lead to fornication. So in conclusion we must say to "stay away from sexual sins we must
Osama- I am not guilty of explaining away any problem in Islam, because there isn't any problem in Islam. It's you who is failing to realize that your porn-full bible is a book of straight sins and fornication and the book of women's "breasts and vaginas taste like wine", and the book of "she wished if her lover was her BIOLOGICAL brother so she wouldn't have to take him home in secret so he can sexually satisfy her all night long". See X-Rated Pornography in the Bible for clear quotes and proofs to all of the claims I just made.
Jim- 1. Find a married woman and suck her breast according to Mr.
Abdallah
2. Get angry and upset at married people for doing it
Jim-Makes no sense does it. No.
Osama- This is not what Islam says. You are a straight liar and you know it. You have no proof that the young boy was a mature man. Also, I didn't get angry at married people having sex. As I said above, your porn-full bible is a book of straight sins and fornication.
Jim-According to Mr. Abdallah He wasn't a grown up man Maybe Mr. Abdallah failed to read this
SUCKLE HIM. She said: How can I suckle him AS HE IS A GROWN-UP MAN? Muslim Book 008, Number 3424 Jim-I could point out many more inconstancies but this would be sufficient for now. Point refuted Mr. Abdallah, you can't hide that one.
Osama- Let us read more about the narration that Mr. Jim provided. Below you will see that Salim was a YOUNG BOY who was granted a foster mother through breast feeding after he was freed from slavery.
Osama- Book 008, Number 3425:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu
Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter
of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has
attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he
enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the
heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle
him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu
Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and
what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.
Osama- Book 008, Number 3426:
Ibn Abu Mulaika reported that al-Qasim b. Muhammad b. Abu Bakr had narrated to him that
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail b. 'Amr came to
Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, Salim (the
freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa) is living with us in our house, and he has attained
(puberty) as men attain it and has acquired knowledge (of the sex problems) as men
acquire, whereupon he said: Suckle him so that he may become unlawful (in regard
to marriage) for you He (Ibn Abu Mulaika) said: I refrained from (narrating this hadith)
for a year or so on account of fear. I then met al-Qasim and said to him: You narrated to
me a hadith which I did not narrate (to anyone) afterwards. He said: What is that? I
informed him, whereupon he said: Narrate it on my authority that 'A'isha (Allah be pleased
with her) had narrated that to me.
Osama- Book 008, Number 3427:
Umm Salama said to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her): A young boy who is at the
threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me,
whereupon 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: Don't you see in Allah's Messenger
(may peace be upon him) a model for you? She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhaifa said:
Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is
something that (rankles) in the mind of Abu Hudhaifa about him, whereupon Allah's
Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your
foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely).
Osama- Book 008, Number 3428:
Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported: I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah's Apostle
(may peace be upon him, saying to 'A'isha: By Allah, I do not like to be seen by a young
boy who has passed the period of fosterage, whereupon she ('A'isha) said: Why is it so? Sahla
daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's
Messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust)
on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be
upon him) said: Suckle him. She (Sahla bint Suhail) said: He has a heard. But he
(again) said: Suckle him, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the
face of Abu Hudhaifa. She said: (I did that) and, by Allah, I did not see (any sign of
disgust) on the face of Abu Hadhaifa.
Osama- What Mr. Jim here fell to notice is that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was protecting a mixed up society from fornication. It was very easy to commit fornication among the Pagans and their traditions. Our beloved Prophet was applying laws that would prevent sins from occurring. He wanted to keep the Islamic society purified from the sexual sins.
Osama- He was NOT promoting pornography as the Porn-full Bible does; the book of "women's vaginas and breasts taste like wine". The book of "She wished if her lover was her biological brother so she wouldn't have to take him home in secret." etc... These quotes are actually true facts that exist in the porn-full bible. See the proof for yourself!
Osama- Also, don't forget to read Fathers can literally rape their daughters by inserting their fingers into their daughters' vaginas before their daughters' marriage in the Bible's Old Testament.
Osama- And while we're at it, don't forget to read The Jewish Holiest Book, the Talmud, allowed for men to have intercourse with their 3-year old captured slave-girls. See the quotes and the proofs for yourself!
Osama- When the young boy suckled from Sahla bint Suhail, she became his foster mother. Her daughters (if she had any) would become prohibited for him for marriage, because they became his foster sisters:
"Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;- (The Noble Quran, 4:23)"
Osama- Narrated Uqba bin Al-Harith: "That he had married Um Yahya bint Abu Ihab. He said. "A black slave-lady came and said, 'I suckled you both.' I then mentioned that to the Prophet who turned his face aside." Uqba further said, "I went to the other side and told the Prophet about it. He said, 'How can you (keep her as your wife) when the lady has said that she suckled both of you (i.e. you and your wife?)" So, the Prophet ordered him to divorce her. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Witnesses, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 827)"
Osama- Narrated 'Uqba bin Al-Harith: "I married a woman and later on a woman came and said, "I suckled you both." So, I went to the Prophet (to ask him about it). He said, "How can you (keep her as a wife) when it has been said (that you were foster brother and sister)? Leave (divorce) her. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Witnesses, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 828)"
As we clearly see in the Noble Verse, any woman who breast feeds anyone becomes prohibited upon him in marriage. Not only her, but her daughters as well.
This is further verified by the following Sayings of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him:
From the Book of Muslim:
Osama- Book 008, Number 3415:
Umm al-Fadl reported: A bedouin came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) when he
was in my house and said: Allah's Apostle, I have had a wife and I married another
besides her, and my first wife claimed that she had suckled once or twice my newly
married wife, thereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: One
suckling or two do not make the (marriage) unlawful.
Osama- Book 008, Number 3400:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri with the same chain of
transmitters (that 'A'isha said): There came Aflah, the brother of Abu'l Qulais (Allah be
pleased with him), and sought permission from her, the rest of the hadith is the same
(except for the words that the Holy Prophet) said:" He is your uncle.
Let your hand be besmeared with dust. Abu'l Qulais was the husband of the woman
who had suckled 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her).
Osama- Book 008, Number 3399:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that there came Aflah the brother, of
Abu'l-Qu'ais, who sought her permission (to enter) after seclusion was instituted, and
AbuQu'ais was the father of 'A'isha by reason of fosterage. 'A'isha said: By
Allah, I would not permit Aflah unless I have solicited the opinion of Allah's Messenger
(may peace be upon him) for Abu Qulais has not suckled me, but his wife has given me suck.
'A'isha' (Allah be pleased with her) said: When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)
entered, I said: Allah's Messenger, Aflah is the brother of Abu'l-Qulais; he came to me to
seek my permission for entering (the house). I did not like the idea of granting him
permission until I had solicited your opinion. Thereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be
upon him) said: Grant him permission. 'Urwa said it was on account
of this that 'A'isha used to say. What is unlawful by reason of consanguinity is unlawful
by reason of fosterage.
Osama- Book 008, Number 3401:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: My foster uncle came to me and sought
permission (to enter the house), but I refused him permission until I had solicited the
opinion of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). When Allah's Messenger (may peace be
upon him) came, I said to him: My foster-uncle sought my permission to (enter the
house), but I did not permit him, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon
him) said: You better admit your uncle (into the house). I ('A'isha)
said: It was the woman who suckled me and not the man. (But he) said: He is
your uncle, admit him.
Osama- Book 008, Number 3406:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Aflah b. Qu'ais sought permission from me
(to enter the house), but I refused to grant him the permission, and he
sent me (the message saying): I am your uncle (in the sense) that the wife of my brother
has suckled you, (but still) I refused to grant him permission. There came the Messenger
of Allah (may peace be upon him) and I made a mention of it to him, and he said: He
can enter (your house), for he is your uncle.
Osama- Book 008, Number 3412:
Umm Habiba, the daughter of AbuSufyan, reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon
him) came to me and I said to him: Have you any inclination towards the daughter of Abu
Sufyan? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Then what should I do? I said: Marry her. He said: Do
you like that? I said: I am not the exclusive (wife) of yours; I, therefore, wish to join
my sister in good. He, said: She is not lawful for me. I said: I have been informed that
you have given the proposal of marriage to Durrah daughter of Abu Salama He raid: You mean
the daughter of Umm Salama? I said: Yes. He said: Even if she had not been my
step-daughter brought up under my guardianship, she would not have been lawful for me,
for she is the daughter of my foster-brother (Hamza), for Thuwaiba had suckled me and her
father. So do not give me the proposal of the marriage of your daughters and sisters.
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Hisham with the same chain of
transmitters.
Osama- Also, if you notice in narration #8.3426 above, you would see that Salim, the freed slave, was actually LIVING in the same house as Sahla bint Suhail, who became his foster mother by breast feeding him.
Osama- Also, if you notice in narrations #8.3425 and 3426 above, you would also see that Sahla started feeling uncomfortable with Salim, the freed slave, after he reached "puberty (in the dictionary it means: 'boyhood, youth and maturing')". So, Salim was a YOUNG BOY who was granted a foster mother through breast feeding after he was freed from slavery.
Osama- As to in the narration 8.3424 above, the only possible Arabic words for "grown-up man" who at the same time just reached his "puberty" are "Fatan Balegh" where the "n" at the end is a pronunciation of an Arabic punctuation for the word "Fata", or "Ghulam Balegh". "man" here is a mistranslation, because "fatan" and "Ghulam" both literally mean either a "fellow" or a "kid" depending on how the person is referenced. The word "Balegh" literally means: (1) Grown-up; (2) Passed child-hood as a child starts showing signs of man-hood from his actions.
Osama- The word "man" was used for young kids back then and is still used today. Notice however in the narrations above, the word "man" was not always used for Salim, the young boy and the freed slave who had no family. "Fellow" or "kid" are the more accurate translation for our understanding of child-hood and man-hood today.
Osama- He WAS NOT a grown up man whom the Prophet wanted for him to have sexual relationship with Sahla as it was mistranslated in only ONE English-translated narration and contradicted in the several other English-translated narrations as Jim so bogusly claims above!
Osama- Jim so obviously ignoring the several other narrations and sticking with one inaccurate translation only suggests that he is only desperately seeking to find anything bad or looks bad in Islam to justify the obvious and irrefutable X-Rated Pornography in the Bible.
There is no pornography proven in Islam.
Jim-Mr. Abdallah says this didn't happen, the Hadith says that it didn't, hence I find Mr. Abdallah trying to play word games and manipulations to cover up his obvious blunders. He continues with more Hadiths dealing with suckling infants, but Aisha herself said that HE IS A GROWN UP MAN.
Osama- No body is playing any word game here. You just don't see the differences in the English translations. You're desperately taking the word "man" literally to try to fool the reader and convince him that Salim, the freed slave, was indeed a real grown up man as we know it today, when in reality as I clearly and irrefutably proved above that he was only a young boy.
Further sites to research:
X-Rated Pornography in the Bible.
Raping girls at the age of 3 is allowed in the Jewish Holiest Book, the Thalmud.
What is the punishment for rape in Christianity and Islam? See how the Bible tolerates it and even indirectly promotes it to happen to single women.
Contradicting errors even in Porn in the Bible.
History of man's corruption in the Bible. The Bible was not even written by the Prophets of GOD and the Disciples of Jesus.
Christianity is the cause of our social corruptions today.
Response to the so called "Pornography" in the Noble Quran.
Church Priests/Ministers who changed their sex and still preach in their Churches.
Women and Maidens in Paradise according to Islam. How will women live in Paradise, and will they have companions?
If the husband rapes his wife, is that a sin in Islam? Is there any answers to this in the Quran?