Search and find articles and topics quickly and accurately!  See different advanced ways to search for articles on this site.

My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "A Brief Rebuttal to Anti-Missionary Attacks on the Trinity" article:

This article is my rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's article that is located at: http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/spirit1_r1.htm.   My two previous rebuttals to his two other articles for the same topic are locate at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit1_rebuttal.htm and http://www.answering-christianity.com/spirit2_rebuttal.htm.

Note about Shamoun's lack of integrity:

As I mentioned in my previous rebuttal, Sam Shamoun is a deceiver who is fond on limiting his reader to read the Truth.  If you notice throughout all of his absurd "responses", he unlinked all of the links that I provided to the reader.   This is both unethical and cowardly.  If Shamoun truly didn't fear my articles, he wouldn't have unlinked them.   Like I mentioned in my previous rebuttals [1] [2] to him, it is up to the reader to decide and not up to him.

Now Shamoun the coward might utter more lies by saying that he is trying to prevent the reader from straying away from the subject, or that he wants to prevent me from confusing the reader.  This would only further prove that he is not only a liar, but also very disrespectful to his readers' intellects, because the readers don't need weasels like him to tell them what to read and what not to read.  Also in this case, the liar himself should not also provide any links of his either.  It should go both ways if he cares about being honest.    Also by the way, as the reader can clearly see, all of my links are relevant to the topic.

I personally always keep his links.  I am not afraid of the lies that he believes in.  They are nothing but lies and my job here is to debunk them and expose them to the fullest!  But I just find it quite ridiculous that Shamoun eliminates for his reader the comfort to have the capacity and the freedom to read the points that he/she feels necessary to be elaborated on, through removing all of my links in his so-called "rebuttals".

Anyway, let's move on with his article....

He wrote:

Osama and Jews For Judaism:

A Brief Rebuttal to Anti-Missionary Attacks on the Trinity

Sam Shamoun

Not surprising, Osama Abdullah has made an attempt to refute our response to his piece on the Holy Spirit (here). He pretty much didn’t say anything worth rebutting, so we won’t bother refuting it piece by piece since that would be a waste of time.

My response:

Oh really?  Let us look at the points that you did not even address and conveniently decided to declare them as a "waste of time":

1-  You claimed that the only Christian trinity known to history is the trinity of "Father, Son and Holy Spirit".   I have exposed your ignorance and proved with quotes that there is another trinity that existed and still exists today on a large scale among Christians, and it is called "The Holy Family Trinity".

2-  Shamoun claimed that the Noble Quran stated that the trinity lie is only the "Father, Mother and Jesus".  I have clearly proved from the Noble Quran that this is a gross error by Shamoun, and showed that Allah Almighty never even once mentioned trinity (thalooth or thaluth in Arabic) in the Noble Quran, but rather, condemned any and all forms of worship of Jesus and/or Mary and all forms of plurality of GOD Almighty.

3-  I proved using Noble Verse 5:73 that even the "Hindu trinity" is condemned.

4-  Shamoun invented a new lie against Islam and claimed that Allah Almighty allowed for others (idols, humans and other creation) to be worshiped beside Him.  I debunked this lie of his and proved that when Allah Almighty Commanded the Angels to bow down to Adam, it wasn't to worship Adam, but rather to elate Mankind's status.  The true believers from Mankind are higher than the Angels themselves according to GOD Almighty, which refutes the "original sin" lie that Christians invented.

5-  I proved from the Noble Quran that our human-spirits are made from the Holy Spirit similar to our flesh being made by the eggs and sperms of our parents, but the Holy Spirit is not part of GOD Almighty.

6-  I proved from the Noble Quran that all of the Spirits and Angels that exist in the Universe are nothing but "Divine Tools" that Allah Almighty Created; each was made for a specific duty.   I also proved from the Noble Quran that in the End, all of them will come before GOD Almighty and Worship Him alone.  See Noble Verses 19:93-96.

7-  Sam Shamoun did not respond to the different types of spirits that exist in the Bible.  He conveniently ignored this point because he knew it knocked his polytheist trinitarian paganistic points and interpretations out.

8-  Sam Shamoun never responded to the figurative speech that exists in the Bible.  He also didn't responded to the metaphoric evil spirits that were sent by GOD Almighty in the Bible.  He instead falsely charged me of saying that GOD Almighty is evil.

9-  Sam Shamoun uses "Let us make man" in the Bible as a proof for trinity.  I proved that it could either mean:

10-  Shamoun falsely claimed that Allah Almighty is a liar.  He has no problem in GOD Almighty sending evil spirits in the Bible, but when He does it in the Noble Quran, the matter becomes different.  Not only that, but Shamoun was completely silent again regarding the man-altered and corrupted bible claiming that GOD Almighty Ordered for innocent children and non-virgin girls to be slaughtered and raped by the mass, when one of the 10 Commandments says "thou shalt not kill (or murder)".  Shamoun's laughable hypocrisy is sometimes overwhelming!

11-  Shamoun invented another theory and lie by saying "God is not God because he does certain things, or simply because he says so."  Yet, in the Old Testament, we see GOD Almighty Boasting about Himself about how He Saved the Israelis from Pharaoh, and how He Took them out of Egypt.  I provided all of the Biblical verses in the second rebuttal.  While this might sound like a minor point, but I decided to refute it for Shamoun just to show the reader how laughable his writings are sometimes.

12-  Shamoun gave a very ridiculous answer regarding my point about Jesus escaping for his life from King Herod to Egypt.   How could the GOD Almighty of the OT who even Punishes to death those who profane His Holy and Mighty Name escape from a worthless creation of His?  How could Jesus be this Almighty, Arrogant and Sovereign GOD?  Shamoun's hopeless answer about the Prophets too did escape in the past from their enemies clearly shows you how desperate and ridiculous he is, because while the Prophets are only humans, and many of them were slain by their enemies (as I proved from both the Bible and the Noble Quran), Jesus was supposed to be our Creator, and therefore, the standards of judging the truthfulness of this false blasphemy that the polytheist trinitarian pagans made-up about him should be on the same level as GOD Almighty's to determine if Jesus was truly GOD or not.  As it turns out from Jesus' characteristics and the decisions he made in life on earth, he is no more than a Prophet and a Creation of GOD Almighty.

Shamoun's lame "response" is silent regarding all of the above points and refutations.  It is obvious that Sam Shamoun picks and chooses what he thinks is easy to "rebut" and, unfortunately for him, he thinks that he can fool his reader by creating the illusion that he has refuted his opponent's writings.  What he fells to realize is that his readers are not as shallow-minded and silly as him.  Everyone who reads my and his papers will immediately realize that Sam Shamoun uses trickery with his readers.

Quite frankly Shamoun, I could careless about your opinion.  I am not here to fool anyone.  That is why I always post your and others' entire article and refute it paragraph by paragraph.  That way, the reader can see the entire argument from both sides and he/she can then judge for themselves. 

Why is this too difficult for Shamoun?  Because he knows that Islam is the Divine Truth as Allah Almighty Said regarding the likes of him from the infidels:

"Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till God accomplish His purpose; for God Hath power over all things.  (The Noble Quran, 2:109)"

He wrote:

We do want to address at least a few aspects of his paper, specifically his appeal to the Jews for Judaism website’s response to the Trinitarian interpretation of Genesis 1:26. Their response can be found here.

My response:

Oh that's weird.  Shamoun now linking to his opponent?  It's very laughable that this is the only link he allowed in his paper.  He apparently wasn't paying attention when he linked it :-).

He wrote:

We will post their article in its entirety followed up with our rebuttal. All of our biblical citations will be taken from the Jewish Publication Society translation (JPS). First the passage in question:

"And God said: ‘Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness; and let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.’ And God created MAN in HIS OWN image, in the image of GOD created He HIM; MALE and FEMALE created HE THEM." Gen. 1:26-27

The Jewish argument is:

Answer: Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are prooftexts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God created man in His image" (Genesis 1:27). In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the next verse by, "And they created man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all- inclusiveness of God's attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality. Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your counsel what we shall do" (2 Samuel 16:20). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" (see also Ezra 4:16-19).

There is another possible reason for the use of the plural on the part of God, and that is to manifest His humility. God addresses Himself to the angels and says to them, "Let us make man in our image." It is not that He invites their help, but as a matter of modesty and courtesy, God associates them with the creation of man. This teaches us that a great man should act humbly and consult with those lower than him. It is not unusual for God to refer to His heavenly court (angels) as "us," as we see in Isaiah 6:8, "And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?'" Although God often acts without assistance, He makes His intentions known to His servants. Thus, we find "Shall I conceal from Abraham that which I am doing" (Genesis 18:17); "He made known His ways to Moses, His doings to the children of Israel" (Psalms 103:7); "For the Lord God will do nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7).

A misconception similar to that concerning Genesis 1:27 is held by trinitarian Christians with reference to the verse, "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language" (Genesis 11:7). Here, too, the confounding of the language is related in verse 9 to God alone, ". . . because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth." In this verse the Hebrew verb "did" appears in the singular form. Also, the descent is credited in verse 5 to the Lord alone, "And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower." In this verse the Hebrew verb "came down" appears in the singular form. If a doctrine of plurality of persons is to be based on the grammatical form of words, the frequent interchanging of the singular and the plural should vitiate such an attempt as being without foundation or merit. We may safely conclude that the Bible refutes most emphatically every opinion, which deviates from the concept of an indivisible unity of God.

Chapter 45 of Isaiah, using the Tetragrammaton, unequivocally asserts that the Lord alone is the creator and ruler of all things in the universe. The six uses of 'Elohim in this chapter (verses 3, 5, 14, 15, 18, 21) show that the term 'Elohim is synonymous with the Tetragrammaton, and that both epithets refer to the absolute one-and-only God. The singularity of God, expressed in the first-person singular in verse 12, clearly shows who is meant by the phrase, "Let us create man in our image": "I, even I, have made the earth, and created man upon it; I, even My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."

As for the Messiah, of him God says, "And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even My servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and My servant David prince among them; I the Lord have spoken" (Ezekiel 34:23-24). The Lord alone will be worshipped as God, while the Messiah, as the servant of God, lives with the people. God and the Messiah are not and cannot be equals, for it is God alone who gives the Messiah power to rule in the capacity of His appointed servant.

RESPONSE:

It is truly intriguing to find Mr. Gerald Sigal (the writer) arguing against the Trinitarian interpretation on the basis that the passages refer to God in the singular, on the basis that singular verbs are employed. The heart of Trinitarianism is that there is only one eternal God, not two, three, four etc. Mr. Sigal has confused Trinitarianism with tritheism, the belief in three gods. Since God is only one eternal Being, we would therefore expect to find singular verbs being used of him. The question is not whether God is addressed in the singular, or spoken of as one, but whether this rules out the possibility of God also existing in a plurality of some sense.

At this point, Mr. Sigal seems to be confused and clearly contradicts himself. Despite saying that the use of the singular rules out God being a Trinity, he then goes on to posit the possibility that God may have been consulting the angels in the creation of man! If the use of singular verbs and the singular "God" rule out the possibility of God being a multi-personal Being, then the same logic must apply to Sigal's claim that God was consulting angels. But if Sigal allows for the possibility that God was addressing the angelic host, despite the use of singular verbs and God being spoken of in the singular, then on what grounds does he wish to rule out the Trinitarian interpretation, that God is addressing the other members of the Godhead? It clearly doesn't have anything to do with the use of the singular. Even more: Not only God is spoken about in singular and plural in these verses; man is too. God refers to himself in the plural in verse 26a, but Sigal claims that the singular in 27a "undoes" the plural in 26a. Would he similarly argue, that the singular for man in the first part of verse 27 (man, him) "undoes" the plural for man in last part of verse 27 (male and female, them; both of which are clearly seen as part of the singular mentioning of man that came before)? If he would not argue that way for the statement about man in the very same verse, why should we accept such an argument as proof against the Trinitarian understanding? (For further discussion, see this article.)

Furthermore, the author erroneously assumes that the reference to David in Ezekiel is actually referring to the Messiah, which is not at all certain. Ezekiel may in fact be speaking of king David being resurrected from the dead to dwell with the redeemed of the Lord. After all, the Hebrew Bible does refer to the resurrection of both believers and unbelievers:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time; and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence. And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn the many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever." Daniel 12:1-3

There are clear biblical references that the Messiah will indeed be worshiped as eternal King since he is identified with Yahweh God himself:

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous shoot, and he shall reign as king and prosper, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name whereby he shall be called, the Lord is our righteousness." Jeremiah 23:5-6

The righteous King who descends from David is called by God’s own covenant name!

"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, there came with the clouds of heaven one like unto a son of man, and he came even to the Ancient of days, and he was brought near before Him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." Daniel 7:13-14

Many rabbinic Jews throughout the centuries have interpreted both these references messianicly.

We, therefore, have clear biblical evidence that the Messiah isn’t simply a mere human being, but is actually a divine figure who shall be served by all peoples for all eternity.

Here, now, is our exegesis of Genesis 1:26-27, taken and modified from one of our rebuttals. In presenting this material, we will essentially be rebutting the arguments set forth by the Jews for Judaism website.

To begin with, the very chapter of Genesis 1 provides evidence that the one God who was responsible for creating man is actually a multi-personal Being. We read in verse 2:

"Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters." Genesis 1:2

Here, we see the Spirit of God hovering over the primordial waters, an indication that God's Spirit was involved in the creation process. With the foregoing in mind, we can now take another look at Genesis 1:26-27:

"And God said: 'Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness; and let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." And God created man in HIS OWN IMAGE, in THE IMAGE OF GOD created HE him; male and female created HE THEM." Genesis 1:26-27

These verses explicitly show that the plural pronouns are used in reference to the One God who made man in His OWN image. There are three main interpretations that are often given to explain the use of these plural pronouns.

1.  God is speaking with angels. This interpretation is ruled out by the fact that the text says that man was created in God's own image. Man is never said to be created in the image of angels. Other passages affirm this point:

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in THE IMAGE OF GOD made HE man. Genesis 9:6

Furthermore, we are clearly told in Genesis 2 that God alone created man:

"Then the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul... And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the place with flesh instead thereof. And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from the man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man." Genesis 2:7, 21-22

The Scriptures are also clear that angels took no part in creation:

"Who commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. Who ALONE stretcheth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea. Who maketh the Bear, Orion, and the Pleiades, and the chambers of the south." Job 9:7-9

"Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, and He that formed thee from the womb: I am the Lord, that maketh all things; that stretched forth the heavens ALONE; that spread abroad the earth by MYSELF;" Isaiah 44:24

Someone may interject and claim that Genesis 1:26 need not imply that man was created in the image of God and angels, but that angels were also created in God's image. This would then mean that God was telling the heavenly council that man would bear God's image much like the angels. The only problem with this claim is that nowhere do the Holy Scriptures say that angels are also created in God's image. The burden of proof rests upon those who claim otherwise.

My response:

First of all, in regards to Genesis 18 & 19, see my thorough refutation to the trinity lie that was invented using them.

First of all, it is good that the polytheist trinitarian pagans at least agree that the interpretation of the Unitarians is possible; that the "Us" could mean an actual Glorification of GOD Almighty and not necessarily mean that GOD Almighty is multiple gods.   Now their argument is that this interpretation is not the correct one, because the "Us" means that GOD Almighty is multiple.  Let us see what the actual problem is with their interpretation:

"And God said: 'Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness; and let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." And God created man in HIS OWN IMAGE, in THE IMAGE OF GOD created HE him; male and female created HE THEM." Genesis 1:26-27

Sam Shamoun is relying on three key statements in the verses above:

1-  "Our Likeness"

2-  "Our Image"

3-  "Us" (see the next "My response" section below)

Very fair.  Let us now examine them in more details:

1-  "....after OUR likeness...." 

Who is this human being that is like GOD?   Adam, the first creation of Mankind and the one in Genesis 1:26-27 certainly isn't.   The likeness of GOD Almighty is not the physical appearance, but rather having the knowledge of Good and evil.   This is clearly stated in the Bible:

"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.  (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 3:5)"

"and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.  (From the NIV Bible, Ephesians 4:24)"

"Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.   (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 7:1)"

"On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them.  (From the NIV Bible, Zechariah 12:8)"

That is why in the Noble Quran, Allah Almighty Commanded all of the Angels to bow down to Adam!  The Righteous and true Believers from Mankind are even better than the Angels themselves.  They are the closest to Allah Almighty:

Noble Verses 2:30-34

30. Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."
31. And He taught Adam the nature of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the nature of these if ye are right."
32. They said: "Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us: In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."
33. He said: "O Adam! Tell them their natures." When he had told them, God said: "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"
34. And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.

This clearly refutes the "original sin" lie!

Mankind are judged by GOD Almighty independently and uniquely.  No mediators (Jesus and idols) are required in Islam:

"Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!  And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.  (The Noble Quran, 99:7-8)"

"In whatever business thou mayest be, and whatever portion thou mayest be reciting from the Quran,- and whatever deed ye (mankind) may be doing,- We are witnesses thereof when ye are deeply engrossed therein. Nor is hidden from thy Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in heaven. And not the least and not the greatest of these things but are recorded in a clear record.    (The Noble Quran, 10:61)"

"There is no moving creature on earth but its sustenance dependeth on God: He knoweth the time and place of its definite abode and its temporary deposit: All is in a clear Record.  (The Noble Quran, 11:6)"

"Knowest thou not that God knows all that is in heaven and on earth? Indeed it is all in a Record, and that is easy for God.    (The Noble Quran, 22:70)"

"Nor is there aught of the unseen, in heaven or earth, but is (recorded) in a clear record.  (The Noble Quran, 27:75)"

By the way, on the literal sense, no one is like GOD Almighty:

"Tomorrow," Pharaoh said. Moses replied, "It will be as you say, so that you may know there is no one like the LORD our God.   (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 8:10)"

"There is no one holy [ Or no Holy One ] like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.  (From the NIV Bible, 1 Samuel 2:2)"

"For who in the skies above can compare with the LORD? Who is like the LORD among the heavenly beings?  (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 89:6)"

"Who is like the LORD our God, the One who sits enthroned on high,  (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 113:5)"

2-  "....in OUR image...." 

First of all, the word image also means example or similitude.  In Arabic, the two words are the same; "timthal" (image); "mathalona" (our image); which are all derived from the root word "mathal" (example), and I am sure that it is the same condition in Hebrew and Aramaic since all three languages are all sister languages.  Also in Arabic similitude means "shabah".  "Mutashabbihan" means to have a similitude of.

There is no question that the root words "mathal" and "shabah" in the Noble Quran were used for "example" and/or "similitude":

"Their similitude (mathalohum) is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, God took away their light and left them in utter darkness. So they could not see.  (The Noble Quran, 2:17)"

"But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before,"for they are given things in similitude (Mutashabbihan); and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (for ever).   (The Noble Quran, 2:25)"

"God disdains not to use the similitude (mathalan) of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: "What means God by this similitude?" By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),-  (The Noble Quran, 2:26)"

"The similitude (mathal) of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.  (The Noble Quran,3:59)"

etc....

Also as we've seen above, "our likeness" only and only means knowing Good and evil in the Bible.  This makes both "our image (or example)" and "our likeness" refer to and mean the same thing.

Shortly below, we will see a comparison between our human-bodies' properties and GOD Almighty's and see how it is impossible for our physical bodies to look like GOD Almighty's, since our physical parts (lungs, hearts, penises, butts, liver, kidney etc.. were all made and design to help us survive here on earth).  But first, let us first look at some of the many examples of the metaphoric speech that exists in the Bible so that the reader can appreciate and comprehend how things are sometimes written in the Bible, and what they really mean.

It is easy for the likes of Shamoun and his cult to deceive the ordinary by giving them examples of this type to prove the polytheist trinity paganism lie.  You will see how these lies have no ground in the Bible and how they are soundly exposed and debunked.

From http://www.answering-christianity.com/bible_figurative_speech.htm:

GOD Almighty's figurative Temptation:

Luke 11
2 He said to them, "When you pray, say: " 'Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.' "
5 Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread,

YET, GOD ALMIGHTY DOESN'T TEMPT:

James 1
13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full -grown, gives birth to death.

Luke 11:2-5 and James 1:13-15 above, clearly prove that GOD Almighty does allow satan to tempt, not only us but also His Prophets.

GOD Almighty's Hand:

1 Samuel 5
9 But after they had moved it, the LORD's hand was against that city, throwing it into a great panic. He afflicted the people of the city, both young and old, with an outbreak of tumors.
10 So they sent the ark of God to Ekron. As the ark of God was entering Ekron, the people of Ekron cried out, "They have brought the ark of the god of Israel around to us to kill us and our people."
11 So they called together all the rulers of the Philistines and said, "Send the ark of the god of Israel away; let it go back to its own place, or it will kill us and our people." For death had filled the city with panic; God's hand was very heavy upon it.

The verses obviously are not talking about GOD Almighty's physical Arm, Hand and Fingers.

They figuratively saw GOD Almighty:

"Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.  (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 24:9-11)"

"Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."  But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."  The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping because of his hip.  (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 32:29-31)"

"But Esau said, "I already have plenty, my brother. Keep what you have for yourself."  "No, please!" said Jacob. "If I have found favor in your eyes, accept this gift from me. For to see your face is like seeing the face of God, now that you have received me favorably. Please accept the present that was brought to you, for God has been gracious to me and I have all I need." And because Jacob insisted, Esau accepted it.  (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 33:9-11)"

GOD Almighty figuratively hid His Face from them:

Deuteronomy 31
16 And the LORD said to Moses: "You are going to rest with your fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake me and break the covenant I made with them.
17 On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and difficulties will come upon them, and on that day they will ask, 'Have not these disasters come upon us because our God is not with us?'
18 And I will certainly hide my face on that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods.

Psalm 27
8 My heart says of you, "Seek his face!" Your face, LORD , I will seek.
9 Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away in anger; you have been my helper. Do not reject me or forsake me, O God my Savior.
10 Though my father and mother forsake me, the LORD will receive me.

Psalm 80
2 before Ephraim, Benjamin and Manasseh. Awaken your might; come and save us.
3 Restore us, O God; make your face shine upon us, that we may be saved.
4 O LORD God Almighty, how long will your anger smolder against the prayers of your people?

Isaiah 59
1 Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
3 For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt. Your lips have spoken lies, and your tongue mutters wicked things.

But in reality and actuality, no one has seen GOD Almighty, because they would then die:

Exodus 3
4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"
And Moses said, "Here I am."
5 "Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground."
6 Then he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

Judges 13
21 When the angel of the LORD did not show himself again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the LORD .
22 "We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen God!"
23 But his wife answered, "If the LORD had meant to kill us, he would not have accepted a burnt offering and grain offering from our hands, nor shown us all these things or now told us this."

1 John 4
11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
13 We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

Jehovah or Yahweh Almighty was the One and Only LORD!  The "God" title was distorted in the Bible.  Even satan was called "God":

2 Corinthians 4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

The word "hotheos" in 2 Corinthians 4:2 which means "God" or "god" was the same exact word used in John 1:1.  For more details and proofs please visit:  The "God" title was given to people before and after Jesus in the Bible.

Only Yahweh (Jehovah in English) is not figurative.  Exactly like no one has ever seen GOD Almighty's Face exactly like Moses is also not figurative.

Can anyone really move a mountain with his eyes?

" Jesus replied, 'I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.   If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.'  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 21:21)"

Can anyone really survive a poisonous snake's venom without treatment?

"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.    (From the NIV Bible, Mark 16:17-18)"

As we saw above in "OUR likeness", the speech is all metaphoric!

Also, both "OUR image" and "OUR likeness" mean the same thing.

The properties of our physical bodies VS GOD Almighty's:

It is important to notice that "OUR image" could also refer to the spirit of humans and not necessarily their earthly bodies.  In other words, it is not necessary that GOD Almighty has a penis, butt, 10 fingers, 10 toes, ribs, lungs, heart etc... as humans have.  Also, if He is like us physically, then does He also have a vagina like women do?  Does He have a big breast like women and not a flat one like men?  Does he breath oxygen like us?   If not, then does He have lungs like us?

Does He eat?  If not, then does He have a stomach that digests and processes all of the food that it intakes like our stomachs do?

Does His Body require vitamins, minerals, calcium, proteins, etc.... to remain surviving like ours do?

Does GOD have blood and skin?  Does He get nose bleeds, and skin cuts that cause bleeding like us?

If He has blood, does He also have a kidney for cleaning His blood?

And if GOD Almighty's Body doesn't process food, then why would He then need a bladder, kidney, butt and a penis or vagina?  If He doesn't urine or do a "number 2" like we do after we eat and drink, then what is the purpose of Him having these parts?  Or does He truly Have them??

It is clear that the image and likeness that are mentioned in Genesis 1:26-27 are nothing but metaphoric speech!

Let us now look at what Jesus said about himself that will give the ultimate knockout to the trinity lie regarding the "Us" and "Image" and "Likeness" in Genesis 1:26-27:

The Bible's New Testament records Jesus saying: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone."   (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"

If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?

I have yet to see a good answer to this one by any polytheist trinitarian.

Also, another important point to notice in Mark 10:18 is the word "alone":    ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone."   (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"

Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said "alone".  If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that.

My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's absurdities regarding Mark 10:18 where Jesus said he was not "good".

These are just few examples.  The list is of refutations is long, and you can view all of them, again, at: www.answering-christianity.com/at.htm

He wrote:

2.  God is speaking of himself in a majestic way, known as the plural of majesty. The only problem with this view is that the plural of majesty is unattested in biblical literature in relation to pronouns. Attempts have been made to show examples from the Holy Bible where the plural of majesty is used in relation to pronouns, i.e. 1 Kings. 12:9, 2 Chronicles 10:9 and Ezra 4:18. Yet, a careful examination of the context of these passages will show that none of them prove the use of the plural of majesty in regards to pronouns:

"And king Rehoboam took counsel with THE OLD MEN, that had stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, saying: 'What counsel give ye me to return answer to this people?' And they spoke unto him, saying: 'If thou wilt be a servant unto this people this day, and wilt serve them, and answer them, and speak good words to them, then they will be thy servants for ever.' But he forsook the counsel of THE OLD MEN which they had given him, and took counsel with THE YOUNG MEN that were grown up with him, that stood before him. And he said unto them: 'What counsel give YE, that WE may return answer to this people, who have spoken to me, saying: Make the yoke that thy father did put upon us lighter?'" 1 Kings 12:6-9

"And king Rehoboam took counsel with THE OLD MEN, that had stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, saying: 'What counsel give ye me to return answer to this people?' And they spoke unto him, saying: 'If thou be kind to this people, and please them, and speak good words to them, then they will be thy servants for ever.' But he forsook the counsel of THE OLD MEN which they had given him, and took counsel with THE YOUNG MEN that were grown up with him, that stood before him. And he said unto them: 'What counsel give YE, that WE may return answer to this people, who have spoken to me, saying: Make the yoke that thy father did put upon us lighter?'" 2 Chronicles 10:6-9

It is clear from the context of these verses that the "WE" refers to the king and his men, to the royal court. The king is not speaking of himself only.

This is substantiated by the following passages:

"Moreover Hezekiah the king AND THE PRINCES COMMANDED the Levites to sing praises unto the Lord with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and prostrated themselves." 2 Chronicles 29:30

"So the posts went with the letters from the king AND HIS PRINCES throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying: 'Ye children of Israel, turn back unto the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, that He may return to the remnant that are escaped of you out of the hand of the kings of Assyria… Also in Judah was the hand of God to give them one heart, to do the commandment of the king AND OF THE PRINCES by the word of the Lord." 2 Chronicles 30:6, 12

We note here that King Hezekiah along with his officials pass on decrees to the people. This adds support to my claim that Rehoboam's "we" statement didn't solely refer to himself, but included his advisors as well.

Finally:

"Then sent the king an answer unto Rehum the commander, and to Shimshai the scribe, and to the rest of their companions that dwell in Samaria, and unto the rest beyond the River: 'Peace, and now the letter which ye sent unto US hath been plainly read BEFORE ME. And I decreed, and search hath been made, and it is found that this city of old time hath made insurrection against kings, and that rebellion and sedition have been made therein. There have been mighty kings also over Jerusalem, who have ruled over all the country beyond the River; and tribute, impost, and toll, was paid unto them. Make ye now a decree to cause these men to cease, and that this city be not builded, until a decree shall be made by me. And take heed that ye be not slack herein; why should damage grow to the hurt of the kings?'" Ezra 4:17-22

The context is clear enough to demonstrate that the use of "US" refers to the king and his royal court. This is also seen from the king's use of "BEFORE ME" with the implication being that the letter was read aloud before the king's men.

3.  God is speaking to the other members of the Godhead. There are at least two reasons why this interpretation is correct. First, earlier in Genesis we saw that God's Spirit was involved in the creation process, a point reiterated elsewhere in the Holy Bible:

"Thou sendest forth Thy spirit, they are created; and Thou renewest the face of the earth." Psalm 104:30

"The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty given me life." Job 33:4

Job states that God's Spirit made him, affirming that the Spirit of God was involved in the creation of man. This definitely shows that God was speaking to at least one other Person in Genesis 1:26.

The second line of evidence comes from Genesis 1:26-27 itself. There we are told that God created MAN (singular). And yet the one man is actually more than one person, since the passage shows that the one man is both male and female. This is reiterated in the following passages:

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created MAN, in the likeness of God made He him; MALE AND FEMALE created He THEM, and blessed them, AND CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth." Genesis 5:1-3

And:

"And the man gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found a help meet for him. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the place with flesh instead thereof. And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from the man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And the man said: 'This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.' Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and THEY shall be ONE FLESH." Genesis 2:20-24

Woman came out of man to be united to him as his helper, and together they form one flesh.

Therefore, since man is multi-personal and is created in the image of God, this means that God is also multi-personal. This accounts for God's use of the plural pronouns.

My response:

As I clearly proved above, the "Image" and "Likeness" of GOD Almighty are only metaphoric.  I also clearly proved that they knowing the difference between Good and evil. 

As to the "We" above for the kings, Sam Shamoun can play his old blasphemous word-game and try to falsely prove that "We" was never used by a single person and referring only to a single person.

"And king Rehoboam took counsel with THE OLD MEN, that had stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, saying: 'What counsel give ye me to return answer to this people?' And they spoke unto him, saying: 'If thou be kind to this people, and please them, and speak good words to them, then they will be thy servants for ever.' But he forsook the counsel of THE OLD MEN which they had given him, and took counsel with THE YOUNG MEN that were grown up with him, that stood before him. And he said unto them: 'What counsel give YE, that WE may return answer to this people, who have spoken to me, saying: Make the yoke that thy father did put upon us lighter?'" 2 Chronicles 10:6-9

I don't know if Shamoun is acting dumb or he just doesn't know history very well.   In the Old days, only the "man in charge" would speak and would decide!  The rest kept silent.  So it is only normal and natural for the king to refer to himself and only himself as "we".

The "We" people in the Bible:

1-  The priests and ministers are perfect, sinless and infallible!

"The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment.  (From the NIV Bible, 1 Corinthians 2:15)"

No ordinary man can judge a homosexual priest or money-worshiping and money-begging fraud minister in church.  They are higher than him or her. 

2-   The magnification of certain select people is true even in the laws of inheritance in the Bible:

(a)-  If the man dies and has one son and several daughters, then the son inherits everything:

Numbers 27
8 "Say to the Israelites, 'If a man dies and leaves no son, turn his inheritance over to his daughter.
9 If he has no daughter, give his inheritance to his brothers.
10 If he has no brothers, give his inheritance to his father's brothers.
11 If his father had no brothers, give his inheritance to the nearest relative in his clan, that he may possess it. This is to be a legal requirement for the Israelites, as the LORD commanded Moses.' "

(b)-  If there is more than one son, then the oldest gets the double of what each has!

(bold and color emphasis below are mine)

From http://www.bibletexts.com/verses/v-2ki.htm:

• 2Ki 1:18 - cm: CHRONICLES: chronicles
• 2Ki 2:9 - double portion
  • The Hebrew text and virtually all English translations describe Elisha asking for 'a double portion' of his master's spirit. The footnote in The HarperCollins Study Bible (edited by Wayne Meeks and the Society of Biblical Literature, NY: HarperCollins, 1993, page 561) explains:

    2.9 Elisha's request for a double share of your spirit refers to the legal provision that a firstborn son must receive a double portion of the inheritance (Deut 21:15-17). Elisha thus asks to have the status of Elijah's firstborn and to inherit more of his spirit than any other prophetic heirs. Elisha is not requesting more of the spirit than Elijah had but only a fraction of it.

    If a Jewish father had two sons, the older son would inherit twice as much property as the younger son, which would provide the older son with two-thirds of the father's property. Professor Rofe's statement that Elisha asked to inherit "two thirds of his master's spirit" would apparently assume that a second son or the other children would inherit the other third of his master's spirit; however, there is no biblical mention of Elijah having been married or having any children. So the assumption may be made that Elijah was making his request in the context of the prophets, meaning in a literal sense that Elisha was requesting two-thirds of Elijah's spirit and requesting the other prophets divide up the other third of Elijah's spirit.

    Norman H. Snaith, in his exegesis of 2 Kings in The Interpreter's Bible (edited by George Arthus Buttrick, Nashville: Abingdon, 1954, Volume 3, page 194), writes:

    9. The double share is the portion of the heir, the first-born. Elisha desires to succeed to the leadership of the prophetic guilds ("the sons of the prophets"), and so to have the authority and power which belonged to his master. The meaning is not that he should be two thirds as great as Elijah (so Ewald [H.G.A. von Ewald, Commentary on the Prophets of the Old Testament, 5 Volumes, Edinburgh: ET, 1875-1881]), nor on the other hand that he should be twice as great as Elijah (so Ecclus. 48:13, Vulg.), but that he should he should be his successor. The word ruah (spirit) is not used here of phophetic inspiration so much as in the sense of more-than-human power.

• 2Ki 3:9 - cm: FETCH(ED) A COMPASS: make (made) a circuit
• 2Ki 4:1-7 - Elisha Helps a Poor Widow
  • The Jerome Biblical Commentary (edited by Raymond E. Brown, Joseph A. Fitzmyer, and Roland E. Murphy, Englewood Cliff, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1968) comments are below. See also the BibleTexts.com book review on the outstanding updated (1990) commentary, The New Jerome Biblical Commentary [book review].

    (i) The poor widow (4:1-7). 1. wife: The story indirectly shows that members of the prophetic guilds married despite the fact that they sometimes lived in community (cf. 4:38-41). slaves: The law did not permit one Israelite to enslave another permanently (Lv 25:46). Israelites could, however, be sold into slavery for a limited time to satisfy debts (Ex 21:7; Is 50:1), and in many cases Israelites were probably reduced to permanent slavery despite the law and the strong sentiment against it (cf. Neh 5:1-13; Jer 34:14; Ex 21:16; Dt 24:7; see De Vaux, AI 82-83).

• 2Ki 4:38 - cm: SEETHE: boil
• 2Ki 4:41 - a/r: HARM, Hebrew: evil thing
• 2Ki 4:42 - cm: CORN: grain
• 2Ki 4:42-44 - Elisha feeding the 100
  • Exo 16:1-18
  • Mat 14:13-21
  • Mat 15:32-39
  • Mat 16:5-12
  • Mar 6:30-44
  • Mar 8:1-10,14-21
  • Luk 9:10-17
  • Joh 6:1-13
  • S&H 89:32-5
  • S&H 206:15-18
  • S&H 273:24-28
  • My 123:21-26
• 2Ki 5:14
  • Lev 14:7-9
  • Luk 4:27
• 2Ki 6:1 - cm: STRAIT: narrow
• 2Ki 6:8 - KJV & TEV wording: Syria - NASB, NIV, NRSV wording: Aram
  • For an explanation of what is really meant here by "Syria", browse "ARAM or SYRIA" at http://www.bibletexts.com/terms/syria.htm
• 2Ki 6:8 - a/r: TOOK COUNSEL WITH or: consulted with
• 2Ki 6:8 - a/r: SERVANTS or: high officials
• 2Ki 6:9 - a/r: SENT or: sent word
• 2Ki 6:9 - a/r: THITHER THE SYRIANS ARE COME DOWN or: the Arameans are coming down there
• 2Ki 6:10 - a/r: SENT or: sent word
• 2Ki 6:10 - a/r: AND THE KING OF ISRAEL SENT TO THE PLACE WHICH THE MAN OF GOD TOLD HIM AND WARNED HIM OF, AND SAVED HIMSELF THERE, NOT ONCE NOR TWICE or: So the king of Israel checked on the place indicated by the man of God. Time and again Elisha warned the king, so that he was on his guard in such places. {TrV}
• 2Ki 6:11 - KJV & TEV wording: Syria - NASB, NIV, NRSV wording: Aram
  • For an explanation of what is really meant here by "Syria", browse "ARAM or SYRIA" at http://www.bibletexts.com/terms/syria.htm
• 2Ki 6:11 - a/r: SERVANTS or: high officials
• 2Ki 6:12 - a/r: SERVANTS or: high officials
• 2Ki 6:13 - a/r: BEDCHAMBER or: bedroom
• 2Ki 6:13 - a/r: SPY or: find out {Hebrew literally: see}
• 2Ki 6:13 - a/r: FETCH or: capture
• 2Ki 6:13 - a/r: AND IT WAS TOLD HIM, SAYING or: And he was told
• 2Ki 6:14 - a/r: THITHER or: there
• 2Ki 6:14 - a/r: GREAT HOST or: large army
• 2Ki 6:14 - a/r: COMPASSED or: surrounded
• 2Ki 6:15 - a/r: HOST or: army
• 2Ki 6:15 - a/r: COMPASSED or: surrounded
• 2Ki 6:15 - a/r: HOW SHALL WE DO or: what shall we do
• 2Ki 6:17
  • Jos 5:13

The point is that the magnification of people and the majestic speech of "We" by people did exist in the Bible both in quotes and in practice
(by for instance putting the older son above all of his brothers and sisters, and putting the daughters behind all sons.)

He wrote:

With this behind us, we can now turn our attention to a few of Osama’s objections:

My response:

I am not trying to twist anything here.  It is also you who is lying because anyone who is familiar with my site knows well that I use for the most part the NIV Bible for the biblical quotes, and the English translation of Abdullah Yusuf Ali for the Noble Quran.  You knew this very well and yet, you're trying to fabricate a new lie against me and my integrity.

The Arabic Noble Verse Says "...thalithun thalath.....", which means "a third entity from three".  So the English translation is actually almost accurate, since the lie of trinity means exactly that.

My response:

Sam Shamoun is again playing his silly and childish word-games.   He knows well that the Noble Verse is referring to non other than the trinity.   The point is that the trinity lie is a blasphemy in Islam!  That's what the bottom line is.  Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation, while it is not literal, but it is definitely almost accurate, and straight to the point.

He wrote:

My response:

It is apparent that Shamoun and his trinity lie and community are all hopeless cases.  As we've seen above, nothing in the Noble Quran and the bible declares trinity as a valid belief.  GOD Almighty is One and not three, or three in one, or a third, or whatever nonsense any of them claims (for they themselves would disagree on this).

The list is of refutations is long, and you can view all of them, again, at: www.answering-christianity.com/at.htm

He wrote:

Osama responds to my challenge to him to produce one verse where it says that the Spirit created us:

My response:

The very first Noble Verse, 32:9, that I mentioned does talk about all humans and not just Adam.  Here is a more thorough text for the reader:

"He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!  (The Noble Quran, 32:7-9)"

"He began the creation of man" and "And He gave YOU (the faculties of) hearing and sight" clearly and irrefutably prove that Allah Almighty is Talking about all mankind and not just Adam, peace be upon him.

RESPONSE:

It is obvious that Osama didn’t bother reading the text carefully since it soundly refutes him:

"He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay, And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into HIM something of His spirit. And He gave YOU (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do YE give!  S. 32:7-9

Notice the change in referents, i.e. HIM in contrast to YOU. The verses are clearly differentiating the creation of the first man Adam by God’s Spirit, with the rest of mankind, and that is why the Quran’s author changes referents. This, therefore, doesn’t prove Osama’s point, nor does it satisfy my challenge. So we issue the challenge again:

Please produce one single verse which says that the Spirit created all of us.

My response:

Shamoun is back again to his silly word games.  If Adam, the first human, peace be upon him, was created through the Holy Spirit, then why can't our spirits be of the same source?  Has it ever occurred to you that we are recycles of Adam?  As our parents' sperms and eggs create our flesh, couldn't it be that the Spirit that Created Adam's is the same one that is cycling back (for lack of better terms) and creates ours?

The Noble Verses that I provided above are quite clear about our human-spirits being from the same Spirit that Created Adam's Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit.

Why are simple things too difficult to comprehend for this polytheist trinitarian pagan is beyond definitely beyond me.

He wrote:

Osama claims that the biblical citations regarding the creation of life in the womb do not prohibit abortion:

My response:

It's funny how Shamoun didn't bold any word in any of the biblical verses that he presented above.  None of them show that abortion is prohibited.

None of them say that the fetus has a spirit!

Osama again makes it obvious that he didn’t bother reading the texts carefully, nor did he understand my point, since I wasn’t basing my argument on a child being human only at the moment he/she is given a spirit or soul. The references clearly speak of life beginning at conception, and the Bible condemns the murdering of innocent life. Therefore, to abort a baby while in his mother’s womb is murder in the eyes of God since the child isn’t merely an embryo but an actual human being, a real living entity created in the image of God.

My response:

Because you are deceitful and think low of your reader's intellect, you only provided a portion of my argument, and also left the verses in question unposted.  The point that I was making is that while our human-spirits might exist before our flesh is made, or before our parents even meet, but that still doesn't mean that the verses you mentioned do prohibit abortion, because the pro-abortionist christians would argue that the fetus' flesh is not necessarily a human one.  Anyway, this is a topic that is outside the scope of this article and I do not wish to concentrate on it, because it is irrelevant to the trinity lie and blasphemies that you and your cult believe in.

He wrote:

Furthermore, according to the Bible, a human being is considered a living entity when it has a soul:

"Then the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7

In fact, death occurs the moment the soul departs from a person:

"And they journeyed from Beth-el; and there was still some way to come to Ephrath; and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour. And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the mid-wife said unto her: 'Fear not; for this also is a son for thee.' And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing--for she died--that she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin. And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath--the same is Beth-lehem." Genesis 35:16-19

"For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them; as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that man hath no pre-eminence above a beast; for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all return to dust. Who knoweth the spirit of man whether it goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast whether it goeth downward to the earth?" Ecclesiastes 3:19-21

Thus, these passages lead us to make the inference that a child’s soul or spirit is created at the very moment of conception, since the child is said to be alive precisely when he/she is conceived. There is additional evidence substantiating this:

"In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, ‘Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!’ But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.’ And Mary said to the angel, ‘How will this be, since I am a virgin?’ And the angel answered her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy--the Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God.’ And Mary said, ‘Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.’ And the angel departed from her." Luke 1:26- 38 ESV

Mary conceived Jesus when Elizabeth was already six months pregnant with John the Baptist. During that time, the Bible says that Mary went to visit Elizabeth, and when she arrived, something amazing happened:

"In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a town in Judah, and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, ‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.’" Luke 1:39-45 ESV

Here, John leaps before Mary while still in his mother’s womb in honor of Christ. This proves that a child is a real human being right at the moment of conception since Mary had just conceived Christ when John leapt before the Lord.

The hadiths, on the other hand, emphatically state that the baby doesn’t even have a soul until the 120^th day of conception. So, it is the Islamic religion which dehumanizes a baby by denying that it is a living soul for the first 120 days of its life.

These were essentially Osama’s main points, since everything else he wrote was simply gibberish.

My response:

Again, neither of the verses that you provided does state that life exists in the fetus.  The creation of man that is mentioned in the bible is referring to Adam, and Adam was already a living human after GOD Almighty Created him.  Again, the pro-abortionist christians would argue that the fetus' flesh is not necessarily a human one.

In regards to the hadith, like I said in my previous rebuttal:

Also in regards to abortion in Islam, there is more evidence from the Noble Quran Itself that support my argument about abortion being prohibited in Islam.  While the fetus may not have a spirit for the first 120 days in the mother's womb, but the controversial topic of abortion is discussed in good details on my site at:

Abortion is a crime in Islam!

But then again, I could be wrong regarding abortion in the first 120 days being prohibited.  I will update the article with the Hadiths that you provided above soon insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).

The first initial problem that I have is the authenticity of the Hadiths that you provided above.  Like the bible, they have Clear Truth and they have man-made lies and corruption in them.  So, I am not sure if I would totally rule out the abortion-being-prohibited in the first 120 days.  To me as it stands right now, abortion is completely prohibited in Islam, according to the Noble Quran.

And Allah Almighty Knows Best.

Now in regards to everything else I said being "gibberish", it's funny how this is coming from the same phony who failed to address the 12 points that I mentioned above.  As always, I'll let the reader decide between us.  You opinion is absolutely irrelevant to me, especially after you have proven yourself many times to be deceitful.

He wrote:

In his second "rebuttal" (here), Osama posts a series of articles, many of which were taken from the Bismikaallahuma site, attacking the blessed Apostle Paul. Most of these articles have already been responded to and can be found here:

We also encourage our readers to read for themselves what the oldest Islamic sources have said about Paul:

My response:

Paul was a liar who contradicted many things in the OT and what Jesus said.  This is at least according to your own bible itself.  The reader can see this in the following articles:

From www.answering-christianity.com/spirit2_rebuttal.htm:

Part III:

Now in regards to the absurd quotes from the books of Paul that Shamoun quoted above, Paul had been proven to be the biggest liar in the lie of the new testament.  The following links contain ample evidence of his forgeries and blasphemy:

This is my favorite one:

Paul nullified and contradicted the point of Baptism.  Him calling the disbelievers, who are supposed to be doomed to Hell, as "sanctified" and "holy" is clear nonsense and stupidity, and further proves with CLEAR-CUT proofs that his words were not Revelations from GOD Almighty.  It also contradicts GOD Almighty's verdict about them in the Old Testament.

He wrote:

The truth is that Muhammad is not even worthy to be placed alongside Paul, let alone the Lord Jesus, since Paul was a beacon of holiness and moral purity, whereas Muhammad was the epitome of immorality, lies, deception, filth and murder. For more on Muhammad's filth, and the evidence showing how vastly superior Paul is to him, please consult the following links:

Nothing more needs to be said about that second part.

We remain by God’s sovereign grace in the service of the glorious and eternally blessed Triune God, Yahweh Elohim, all praise be to his name alone! Amen. Come Lord Jesus come. We love you and will always serve you by God’s grace.

My response:

I have already debunked this lie about our beloved and Blessed Prophet, Muhammad, peace be upon him, and proved that the only filth, pedophilia, murders, rape, terrorism and racism exists in the corrupted bible's prophets themselves:

My Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

Rebuttals to Sam Shamoun's Articles section.

What is the Role of the Holy Spirit in Islam? Why can't we call it GOD?

My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "Examining the Evidence which proves that the Spirit is God" blasphemous article.

My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "Examining the Evidence which proves that the Spirit is God" blasphemous article (PART II).

Ask me any question section.

Errors and History of Contradictions and Corruption in the Bible.

Christians are Commanded to follow the Old Testament.

Allah, Islam, Quran, Muhammad questions and answers.

What is the place of Jews, Christians and non-Muslims in Islam?

Answering Trinity.

"Allah" was GOD Almighty's Original Name in the Bible according to the Hebrew and Aramaic sources.

Send your comments.

Back to Main Page.